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  1. #1
    krelin is offline Junior Member
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    Dont understand high fine and ineligibility for traffic school please help

    What is the name of your state? CA

    Hello,

    I got pulled over a couple of weeks ago for not stopping completely at 2 stop signs. Also, at the time I forgot to put my new insurance card in the car (had an expired one) so got cited for tat too

    Ticket says:
    22450(A) CVC Stop Sign
    16028A Proof of financial responsibility

    Both are marked as Infraction and Not Correctable. I received today letter of Bail asking me to pay almost $900!! Also says I am not eligible for traffic school.

    I do not understand why the proof of financial responsibility is not correctable. I read online that it generally is. I have the insurance card showing I was insured at the time. Also I do not understand why I got such a high fine! I am a student and $900 is really a big amount for me. Also I have had license for over 5 years with and have a clean record, have never been cited before- so why am I ineligible for traffic school?

    Can I appear before clerk/judge and show insurance (to get fine down) even if it is marked uncorrectable? Also can I ask for traffic school?

    please help with advice, thanks
  2. #2
    garrula lingua is offline Senior Member
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    Appear in court, with proof that you were insured at the time of the citation and also now.
    They will probably dismiss the insurance charge or at least charge a lower fine (125, I think).

    Court fees and penalties are added to a fine.
    In Los Angeles, the percentage of court penalties and assessments is about 270% ... ergo the high fines.

    You do have the option of doing community service for the fine if the Judge allows.
    You are credited about $30 for each 8 hours of cs.

    BTW, 'non-correctable' just means that it's not a 'fix-it' ticket (i.e. just correct the equipment/paperwork error and a cop can sign off on the ticket which you turn in.)

    You still have the option of attending traffic school to keep the point(s) off your record, as long as the Judge approves. However, you still have to pay the fine in full, as well as the traffic school. It will help with your insurance rates.

    Good luck.
    Last edited by garrula lingua; 04-26-2008 at 12:04 AM.
  3. #3
    krelin is offline Junior Member
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    thanks am a bit less worried now
  4. #4
    CdwJava is online now Senior Member
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    And, the clerk of the court (or the judge) CAN "correct" the insurance section. A peace officer cannot do this which is why it is not correctable.

    - Carl
    A Nor Cal Cop Sergeant

    "Make mine a double mocha ...
    And a croissant!"

    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkM-gDcmJeM
  5. #5
    occharge is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by garrula lingua View Post
    They will probably dismiss the insurance charge or at least charge a lower fine (125, I think).
    If you can show the Judge/Court Clerk proof that you had Insurance at the time when you were cited, CVC 16028.a violation WILL be dismissed upon your payment of a $10 administrative fee.

    As for you eligibility for Traffic School, I think we can only assume that you have Class C drivers license. If that is the case and if you have not attended in the 18 months prior to the violation date then you should be eligble.

    However, if you have a Class A, B or a commercial driver's licence then you are ineligible to have the violation removed from your record by attending Traffic School.

    Good luck!
    Last edited by occharge; 04-26-2008 at 01:28 PM.
  6. #6
    Hey There is offline Member
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    Post Introduction to traffic tickets 101

    4-26-08
    krelin
    Ticket says:
    22450(A) CVC Stop Sign
    16028A Proof of financial responsibility

    A insurance agent has a form with several copies which certifies that the driver was insured at the time he was issued a ticket.
    At this court, the court clerk wouldn't accept proof of insurance but insisted that the correct form from the insurance agent be brought to trial.
    The insurance charge was dismissed with a $10.00 fee.

    ******************************************************
    Every driver cited for a traffic violation has the legal right to plead not guilty.
    The Notice to Appear gives this as one of the options for the cited driver.
    A not guilty plea means that the driver is requiring the court to prove the charges are valid or dismiss the case.(Innocent until proved guilty in a court of law.)
    In Ca. a driver is entitled to Discovery.
    This means that the driver can request and obtain copies of the officer's notes, a copy of the video if one was used, a copy of the front and back of the traffic ticket and where the officer was when he observed the alleged violation.
    Information on Discovery can be found on the internet by typing in Discovery for Traffic Tickets on Google. Typing in Help! I Got A Ticket! not only gives information on Discovery but provides a form to send one to the D.A., instructions on how to conduct a proper defence, and thru an E:mail on his site he will answer questions about your citation.
    If you check at the library there is likely available a book published by NOLO which gives detailed information on how to fight a traffic ticket in CA.This book has detailed instructions on how to apply for Discovery and a form to copy from the back of the book to request Discovery from the citing officer and D.A.The request must be signed by the driver, BUT copies of the request
    MUST be mailed Certified, Return Receipt by a FRIEND,
    who fills out a proof of service which the driver retains for his records.
    The above book also has information a driver can use to file for dismisal if Discovery isn't provided and to conduct a proper defence in court.
    Most courts let a defendant in a traffic violation to have a continuance to appear in court by simply calling the court clerk and requesting one. Some allow more than one.
    A continuance gives the cited driver more time to obtain Discovery with the possibility of filing a Trial by Declaration once Discovery is received. The advantage to this is that if the judge rules against the driver the driver can request a NEW TRIAL if done within 20 days of the verdict.
    Some lawyers will consult for free or a modest amount($50.00) on a one time basis . Lawyers who do this can be found in the yellow pages of a phone book.
    It can be tedious to fight a traffic ticket but it is also be a valuable learning experience on how the courts are run (at least the one in your area).
    If possible, a driver should go to the court where his case will be held and observe how the judge rules on traffic cases.


    Keep us posted
    Best Regards,
    Hey There
  7. #7
    occharge is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hey There View Post
    4-26-08
    krelin
    Ticket says:
    22450(A) CVC Stop Sign
    16028A Proof of financial responsibility

    A insurance agent has a form with several copies which certifies that the driver was insured at the time he was issued a ticket.
    At this court, the court clerk wouldn't accept proof of insurance but insisted that the correct form from the insurance agent be brought to trial.
    The insurance charge was dismissed with a $10.00 fee.
    ....
    Hey There
    Hey there Hey There... (Mind if I call you "Hey" or would you prefer "Mr./Ms. There")

    If the insurance ID card the is provided to the insured by the insurer or his/her agent at the time that the policy is purchased or renewed is sufficient enough to provide proof of coverage to the officer in the field and if it is sufficient to show before the Judge then I would assume that it should be sufficient to show to the clerk... Wouldn't it?

    Which court are you speaking of?
  8. #8
    CdwJava is online now Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by occharge View Post
    If the insurance ID card the is provided to the insured by the insurer or his/her agent at the time that the policy is purchased or renewed is sufficient enough to provide proof of coverage to the officer in the field and if it is sufficient to show before the Judge then I would assume that it should be sufficient to show to the clerk... Wouldn't it?
    Not necessarily.

    The card does not indicate that you were insured at the time of the stop ... there may be an "effective" date, but that does not mean that the policy was not suspended at the time of the stop. The court MIGHT accept that, but it is best to get something from the company indicating that you were insured on the date of the stop.

    - Carl
    A Nor Cal Cop Sergeant

    "Make mine a double mocha ...
    And a croissant!"

    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkM-gDcmJeM
  9. #9
    occharge is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by CdwJava View Post
    Not necessarily.

    The card does not indicate that you were insured at the time of the stop ... there may be an "effective" date, but that does not mean that the policy was not suspended at the time of the stop. The court MIGHT accept that, but it is best to get something from the company indicating that you were insured on the date of the stop.

    - Carl
    Actually, with all due respect, the card does show the effective date at the time the policy was initiated.. That can change quickly though, so I do agree with you that I might not make a premium payment, fail to disclose an accurate driving record (which might get the coverage suspended shortly thereafter), etc....

    And a solution is on the way... The DMV is already online with all Insurance companies licensed to sell in the State of California... So you go in to renew your registration, there's not need to take proof of coverage with you... The information comes up on their screen.

    Eventually, i am sure the officer in the field as well as the court clerk will be linked to such a system thereby allowing them to check proof of coverage for every stop and every court appoearance respectively.

    In fact, its already made it into the California Vehicle Code:
    Section 16020.(c) For purposes of this section, "evidence of financial responsibility" also may be obtained by a law enforcement officer and court personnel from an electronic reporting system when that system becomes available for use by law enforcement officers.
  10. #10
    CourtClerk is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by occharge View Post
    Eventually, i am sure the officer in the field as well as the court clerk will be linked to such a system thereby allowing them to check proof of coverage for every stop and every court appoearance respectively.
    The courts already are... however, your insurance card is sufficient (at least in LA County)
  11. #11
    CdwJava is online now Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by occharge View Post
    Actually, with all due respect, the card does show the effective date at the time the policy was initiated..
    But it does NOT show that the policy was in force at the time of the crash.

    While the DMV is moving to tie insurance into registration records, in the not-too-distant past, it was not an uncommon practice for people to pay for insurance, get their card, and then cancel it. Hence, the reason the courts sometimes ask for something more than the card. My county court is one such court that does so.

    And a solution is on the way... The DMV is already online with all Insurance companies licensed to sell in the State of California... So you go in to renew your registration, there's not need to take proof of coverage with you... The information comes up on their screen.
    This system is not fully online and, as I recall, is not expected to be reliable until at least 2010 or later.

    - Carl
    A Nor Cal Cop Sergeant

    "Make mine a double mocha ...
    And a croissant!"

    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkM-gDcmJeM
  12. #12
    heath_durbin is offline Junior Member
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    My company pays my truck insurance.

    So i always get asked for it. and the cop nore the DMV know if i have it.

    When i'm in any other car, they don't ask for proof.


    HOWEVER you are legal required to carry proof of some sort, in case of an accident.

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