Double Intersection red light violation

[kennbart]

What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state? California
I was recently cited for "failure to stop for red phase" on a double intersection. By double intersection I mean there are cross-streets that do not continue (through the main street I was travelling on) back to back and there is no posting of signs or paint on the ground that say "WAIT HERE" prior to the second intersection, which is commonplace in Los Angeles..... so I proceeded through it thinking it was part of the first intersection. Are there city laws that dictate this intersection MUST be posted clearly that you wait in the middle of the two??? they are seperated by like 30 feet....

thanks a lot.

[CdwJava]

What was the specific code sextion you were cited for? Was it CVC 21453(a)? Or another one?

- Carl

[JOHN BUCKNER]

If you failed to yield for a red..Then I do not see what difference the code code issue will make, Of course Red is Red Unless, I am missing something. Most States it is a clear cut violation. Some violation codes read that if you are passed the curb embankments when a light turns red then a violation has occured. That will be hard to beat. Can you give us some more expicit details. What occured and what did the officer tell you? What does the citation indicate?? What Am I possibly missing hear Carl? Not advice for what it is worth. Patrolman/J. Buckner

[CdwJava]

Well .. I'm having a hard time picturing what might have happened here. The citation might clarify the matter. If it's 21453(a) then it's a simple red lightviolation (failure to stop at the limit line). There are others that might be applicable depending on the type of intersection ... we DO have some weird ones here.

- Carl

[JOHN BUCKNER]

Ya Carl I understand what you are saying. We all have some strange verbage within our States Laws. It's just so hard to beat Red. However maybe the person can shed some light on the reading of the actual Cite. I would also be intrested as I said in what the Officer had said... Possibly explaining in his or Her words what or how the violation had taken place. If you know what I mean. Patrolman/J. Buckner

[CdwJava]

Originally Posted by JOHN BUCKNER

Ya Carl I understand what you are saying. We all have some strange verbage within our States Laws. It's just so hard to beat Red. However maybe the person can shed some light on the reading of the actual Cite. I would also be intrested as I said in what the Officer had said... Possibly explaining in his or Her words what or how the violation had taken place. If you know what I mean. Patrolman/J. Buckner

It's the term, "failure to stop for red phase" that is confusing me. I'm hoping the section cited can explain that.

- Carl

[JOHN BUCKNER]

Agreed.....Lets Hope that they get back and hopfully shed some light. I too am wanting to know the same info.I am also wondering if possibly the verbage has been mis-read or mis-understood, the possibly does exists as you and I both know. I have never heard the "phase" Part within a fail to yeild statute. myself. Anyway Good Conversing over issues with you once agian Carl. Be careful out there! Patrolman/J. Buckner

[kennbart]

Originally Posted by CdwJava

What was the specific code sextion you were cited for? Was it CVC 21453(a)? Or another one?

- Carl

OK, here's the quote on the ticket Code and section description:

it is 21453 (a) VC _ OBS'd violator fail to stop for a red phase tri-light 15' late

no idea what "the 15' late" means....

my BIG question is: IS the CITY liable to post clearly in Paint and signs that there is a clear place to stop between these intersections.... I've seen other intersections similiar to this one POSTED in PAINT and SIGNS "WAIT HERE" and this intersection is very ambiguous.... I'm sure they are getting people every day at this place... of course, that's the idea... the money machine at work.

thanks for all your input I do appreciate it

kenn

[RetiredMotor]

"no idea what "the 15' late" means...."

Means you we 15 feet past the spot you were required to stop at, at the time the signal turned red.

[CdwJava]

Originally Posted by kennbart

it is 21453 (a) VC _ OBS'd violator fail to stop for a red phase tri-light 15' late

no idea what "the 15' late" means....

As RetiredMotor said - you apparently stopped 15' past the limit line.

my BIG question is: IS the CITY liable to post clearly in Paint and signs that there is a clear place to stop between these intersections.... I've seen other intersections similiar to this one POSTED in PAINT and SIGNS "WAIT HERE" and this intersection is very ambiguous.... I'm sure they are getting people every day at this place... of course, that's the idea... the money machine at work.

No - traffic safety is the idea. The local agency makes very little money per citation in California, so it sure as heck isn't for the money.

I'd wager that if you go back out there you will find that lines or crosswalks are painted on the streets where you are supposed to stop. The city is not necessarily required to post additional signed for any particular reasons.

And, yes, it CAN be a bother and very confusing. I have worked in a jurisdiction with a couple sets of those and there were problems all the time. Personally, I avoided the intersections when I could because I hated them.

I would suggest you go back and get photos of the intersection, try and come up with a diagram of where you were when you stopped, and explain all this to the judge/commissioner so that he/she can understand what you were facing.

- Carl

[kennbart]

Just ONE more question and thank you for all your input.... The ticket "bail" is $342 dollars which is simply outrageous to me and I cannot afford to pay it... is there a way to get the bail reduced based on hardship??? There's no way I can pay it without defaulting on other payments I have.

thanks a million!

kenn

Is the mystery intersection Prairie / 111th in Inglewood? 111th Street "jogs" just like you describe.

It is confusing. Judges at Inglewood courthouse already throw out all tickets at similar intersection (also with jog) Crenshaw / 108th. They issued 8000 tickets at that intersection in less than a year!

So, defense would be that it's confusing.

If the ticket is at that intersection and is old, before Aug. 19, 2004, those are getting tossed out because the required warning signs were missing. See Inglewood section on Camera Towns page of website [url]http://www.highwayrobbery.net[/url]

Not a Cop or Lawyer... or a Judge

[JOHN BUCKNER]

If you are leaning to paying the ticket, Most courts will give you a payment plan if needed. Depends sometimes on your financial status. Not Advice For What It's Worth. Patrolman/J. Buckner