Driving on private property to avoid a traffic signal or a stop sign

[issc29]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? NJ

A couple of days ago i was doing a favor for a friend by dropping him off to school in NJ. I was given instruction to make a right after I exited to get back on the road to go to work. I accidentally made a right into a the back of a firehouse parking lot (looked like a regular street), so i exited on the other side and made a right on that street. A cop pulled me over and cited "N.J.S.A 39:4-66.2, Driving on private property to avoid a traffic signal or a stop sign". Being a NY driver, I was not familiar with the streets and had no intention of avoiding an intersection. I am also required to show up in court. If i plead Not Guilty, showing to the judge pictures that it looked like a regular street, do you think i can win? And if not, what would be considered a good deal in a plea bargain?

 

[Zigner]

Another way to look at it is that you were not avoiding the traffic control device (signal/sign), rather, you were avoiding the entire street! The law seems to allow for that

 

[demurringdude]

Is a firehouse private property? If yes, what do you think the chances are that the police officer will bring evidence of that to court? If you have the time to go to court for a trial, you might get lucky on that issue.

 

[cyjeff]

Ignorance of the law is not a valid defense.

 

[Zigner]

Again, if the OP were using the road to avoid the STREET, then he did NOT violate the section he was charged with...think about it

 

[justalayman]

the claim is: he wasn't attempting to avoid anything. He simply mistook the drive for a road. Now, honestly, I can't imagine that but if you think you can convince a judge of it, I say go for it.

the thing I see missing is: his instructions were to take a right. One right.


with the action the OP took, he took a right (into the fire department) and then another right when he reached the street.


One way he would be driving 90º from the original course. The other way he would be driving 180º from the original direction.

 

[issc29]

demurringdude- the firehouse is public property, but its included in the law. 39:4-66.2 "Operation of motor vehicle on public or private property to avoid traffic signal" - Fine or imprisonment not exceeding 15 days, or both $50-$200

justalayman- sorry he said a right and another right- and i can get an affadavit of that.

Since it was the back of the firehouse parking lot there was no "no tresspassing" sign from my view, there was no elevation on the street to indicate that its not part of the street and the firehouse wasnt seeable until after the turn was made.

Zigner- do you really think that defense will work? because the street i was "avoiding" was empty with no cars, and at the end of it is a stop sign.

 

[justalayman]

justalayman- sorry he said a right and another right- and i can get an affadavit of that.

If it were me, I wouldn't. It doesn't add anything and actually gives them reason to see why you might have used the short cut.

Zigner- do you really think that defense will work? because the street i was "avoiding" was empty with no cars, and at the end of it is a stop sign.

I doubt it. You trimmed of whatever distance you did and avoided at least one stop sign. I would stick with your argument that you believed it to be a street, if it really does appear to be one, and you were simply mistaken.

 

[demurringdude]

Again, if the OP were using the road to avoid the STREET, then he did NOT violate the section he was charged with...think about it

Presumably he avoided lots of things, like the fire engines, the firehouse, the firefighters, the sidewalk, etc etc, but all that matters is that he is charged with avoiding the traffic signal. It doesn't matter what other things he also avoided.

 

[issc29]

Thanks guys for the help so far. So my trial is tomorrow and i am trying to decide whether to accept a plea bargain or take my chances in trial. Since this is my first violation I figure the prosecution will offer me no points (instead of 2) and a higher fee (than the standard $85). Do you think i should accept or fight this in court.

 

[issc29]

oh and i checked with my insurance and they said that they do check my out of state driving record even though ny state does not transfer points from NJ.

Thanks!!

 

[Zigner]

Presumably he avoided lots of things, like the fire engines, the firehouse, the firefighters, the sidewalk, etc etc, but all that matters is that he is charged with avoiding the traffic signal. It doesn't matter what other things he also avoided.

Sorry, I'll go a bit slower for you...

He is charged with avoiding the traffic control device (requires intent).

If he can convince the court that his intent was NOT to avoid the traffic control device, then he did not commit the violation he was charged with. Get it?

Do I think it would work? Probably not, because it relies on presenting convincing testimony of his lack of intent...and the courts probably aren't too open to that.