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Driving without a license vs driving under suspension.

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npntransistor

Junior Member
I live In Ohio. I was pulled over by an officer the other day for crossing the white line. I have no licese. When I was 16 I had an accident while driving on my permit and my permit was suspended for 3 months. all this was in a juvinel cort. I payed all fines assosiated with that. my permit exspired 12/05. The officer sited me for lanes of travel and driving under a suspended license. That shouldnt be possible considering i never had one to being with. Can I get off on that technicality? I am now 18. What is the diffrence in punishments for driving under suspension and driving without a license? Also, on the ticket it is stated i was driving in a residential area. i was pulled over and ticked in a rural area.


~thank you, Kevin
 


rmet4nzkx

Senior Member
npntransistor said:
I live In Ohio. I was pulled over by an officer the other day for crossing the white line. I have no licese. When I was 16 I had an accident while driving on my permit and my permit was suspended for 3 months. all this was in a juvinel cort. I payed all fines assosiated with that. my permit exspired 12/05. The officer sited me for lanes of travel and driving under a suspended license. That shouldnt be possible considering i never had one to being with. Can I get off on that technicality? I am now 18. What is the diffrence in punishments for driving under suspension and driving without a license? Also, on the ticket it is stated i was driving in a residential area. i was pulled over and ticked in a rural area.


~thank you, Kevin
Kevin,
Kevin,
Kevin....
Tell it to the judge, but I have the feeling you shouldn't be driving.

edit
I just consulted the FA Crystal Ball and was directed to 2 threads since you were cited in a rural area, not sure the significance.
https://forum.freeadvice.com/showthread.php?t=192117 https://forum.freeadvice.com/showthread.php?t=213579
 
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npntransistor

Junior Member
I do not deny the fact i should not be driving or that i was driving without a license, but it seems that driving under suspension is alot more evere than driving without a license, i just dont want to be charged for more than what i am guilty of.
 

rmet4nzkx

Senior Member
npntransistor said:
I do not deny the fact i should not be driving or that i was driving without a license, but it seems that driving under suspension is alot more evere than driving without a license, i just dont want to be charged for more than what i am guilty of.
What doe it take to get you off the roads? We don't you to have a sudden impact with a bovine creature on those rural roads.

Your permit was suspended and you still drove and not well at that.
 

npntransistor

Junior Member
you are missing the point my permit is not undersuspension, that is long said and done with, if your not going to give advise then dont post.
 

npntransistor

Junior Member
I am not trying to get out of this, just make sure everything is proper. I want to know the law before i face it in court. I was very polite to the officer and know this was only my fault, trust me just getting pulled over tought me not to drive. I just want to get this behind me as quickly as possible. I understand i broke the law and would like if you automaticly start getting sarcastic with the "your an *******" thing. Im a human i make mistakes. Just any help would be welcome. thank you.
 

rmet4nzkx

Senior Member
npntransistor said:
I am not trying to get out of this, just make sure everything is proper. I want to know the law before i face it in court. I was very polite to the officer and know this was only my fault, trust me just getting pulled over tought me not to drive. I just want to get this behind me as quickly as possible. I understand i broke the law and would like if you automaticly start getting sarcastic with the "your an *******" thing. Im a human i make mistakes. Just any help would be welcome. thank you.
It is one thing to be young and make mistakes it is another thing to learn from them.
 

rmet4nzkx

Senior Member
npntransistor said:
as young as i am i am learning, unfortunitly :eek: . Just trying to figure out the best way to deal with this.
Then you approach the judge with a contrite heart, tell the truth and don't try to avoid responsibility by trying to get it reduced on a technicality, it would be ok to state that you don't have a driver's license and the fact that you had a permit but it was suspended, these are both facts, obviously you shouldn't have been driving. But the judge may have mercy on you if you are up front and don't play games.
 

npntransistor

Junior Member
that was my plan, to go to the judge and admit the fact i dont have a license and that i understand i have broken the law, but that i do not have a licencse and have never held one. nor do i have a permit. i never had the intensions of playing games, thats why i came here, to understand the law as apose to going in not knowing anything and upsetting people by being ignorent of what i am saying. just wanted to know if that was a viable point to bring up. and if anyone knows the penalty for driving without a license. in ohio there is a 12 point license system, in order to have had my license suspendid i would have had to broken the law multiple times before, hence why the punishment for driving under suspension is a misdemeanor. I would like to know if anyone knows the penalty for driving without a license, not undersuspension, in ohio.
 

efflandt

Senior Member
Did you ever go back to the bureau of motor vehicles and properly reinstate your learner's permit "after" the 3 month suspension? If not, it is still suspended. It does not magically become unsuspended, even if it expires.

§ 4510.21. Failure to reinstate license.

(A) No person whose driver's license, commercial driver's license, temporary instruction permit, or nonresident's operating privilege has been suspended shall operate any motor vehicle upon a public road or highway or any public or private property after the suspension has expired unless the person has complied with all license reinstatement requirements imposed by the court, the bureau of motor vehicles, or another provision of the Revised Code.

(B) Whoever violates this section is guilty of failure to reinstate a license, a misdemeanor of the first degree. The court may impose upon the offender a class seven suspension of the offender's driver's license, commercial driver's license, temporary instruction permit, probationary driver's license, or nonresident operating privilege from the range specified in division (A)(7) of section 4510.02 of the Revised Code.
If whoever let you drive the car knew you did not have a valid license, they could also be charged with a misdimeanor of the first degree.
 

OGofCRIMINALLAW

Junior Member
Efflandt really said it well. Great info. My 2-cents. Go get the LEARNER'S PERMIT reinstated. You haven't gone to court yet. You said you paid all fines related to the earlier mistakes. Kool. Make a call or go to the DMV and see what's up on getting re-instated BEFORE the court date....If you've basically been a pretty kool customer on the roads, traffic judges won't get all in ya face too much. They know people forget their licenses/permits, forget to check the expiration dates (within reason), etc, etc...

Often the judge will ask you "have you been re-instated?" even before you open your mouth (he justs wants to expedite the cases/docket and get the hell out of there too). So if you can say YES, it looks good for you.:) Answering yes also puts you in COMPLIANCE now--at which point the judge may simply assess you court costs and/or a fine. (WHEN YOUR NAME IS CALLED YOU COULD ALSO JUST SIMPLY SAY "YOUR HONOR I'VE BEEN RE-INSTATED" IN EFFECT BEATING THE JUDGE TO THE PUNCH). Of course, per Ohio Revised Statutes 4510.21 the judge could penalize you to the tune of a CLASS 7 SUSPENSION which according to RSOH 4510.02 means A DEFINITE PERIOD NOT TO EXCEED ONE YEAR (the entire statute is below):

§ 4510.02. Definite periods of suspension; remedial driving course; suspension subject to chapter.

(A) When a court elects or is required to suspend the driver's license, commercial driver's license, temporary instruction permit, probationary license, or nonresident operating privilege of any offender from a specified suspension class, for each of the following suspension classes, the court shall impose a definite period of suspension from the range specified for the suspension class:

(1) For a class one suspension, a definite period for the life of the person subject to the suspension;

(2) For a class two suspension, a definite period of three years to life;

(3) For a class three suspension, a definite period of two to ten years;


(4) For a class four suspension, a definite period of one to five years;


(5) For a class five suspension, a definite period of six months to three years;


(6) For a class six suspension, a definite period of three months to two years;

(7) For a class seven suspension, a definite period not to exceed one year.

(B) When the bureau of motor vehicles elects or is required to suspend the driver's license, commercial driver's license, temporary instruction permit, probationary license, or nonresident operating privilege of any person from a specified suspension class, for each of the following suspension classes, the period of suspension shall be as follows:

(1) For a class A suspension, three years;


(2) For a class B suspension, two years;


(3) For a class C suspension, one year;

(4) For a class D suspension, six months;

(5) For a class E suspension, three months;

(6) For a class F suspension, until conditions are met.

(C) The court may require a person to successfully complete a remedial driving course as a condition for the return of full driving privileges after a suspension period imposed from any range in division (A) of this section or otherwise imposed by the court pursuant to any other provision of law ends.

(D) When a court or the bureau suspends the driver's license, commercial driver's license, temporary instruction permit, probationary license, or nonresident operating privilege of any offender or person pursuant to any provision of law that does not provide for the suspension to be from a class set forth in division (A) or (B) of this section, except as otherwise provided in the provision that authorizes or requires the suspension, the suspension shall be subject to and governed by this chapter.


(B) Whoever violates this section is guilty of operating a motor vehicle without a valid license and shall be punished as follows:



[I]Wait, there's more...below is Ohio Revised Statute 4510.12 [/I]
(1) If the trier of fact finds that the offender never has held a valid driver's or commercial driver's license issued by this state or any other jurisdiction, the offense is a misdemeanor of the first degree.

THE MEAT OF YOUR CASE (2) (a) Subject to division (B)(2)(b) of this section, if the offender's driver's or commercial driver's license or permit was expired at the time of the offense for no more than six months, the offense is a minor misdemeanor and if the offender's driver's or commercial driver's license or permit was expired at the time of the offense for more than six months, the offense is a misdemeanor of the fourth degree.

(b) (i) If the offender previously was convicted of or pleaded guilty to one violation of this section or a substantially equivalent municipal ordinance within the past three years, the offense is a misdemeanor of the third degree.

(ii) If the offender previously was convicted of or pleaded guilty to two violations of this section or a substantially equivalent municipal ordinance within the past three years, the offense is a misdemeanor of the second degree.

(iii) If the offender previously was convicted of or pleaded guilty to three or more violations of this section or a substantially equivalent municipal ordinance within the past three years, the offense is a misdemeanor of the first degree.

(C) The court shall not impose a license suspension for a first violation of this section or if more than three years have passed since the offender's last violation of this section or a substantially equivalent municipal ordinance.

(D) If the offender was convicted of or pleaded guilty to one or more violations of this section or a substantially equivalent municipal ordinance within the past three years, and if the offender's license was expired for more than six months at the time of the offense, the court shall impose a class seven suspension of the offender's driver license, commercial driver's license, temporary instruction permit, probationary license, or nonresident operating privilege from the range specified in division (A)(7) of section 4510.02 of the Revised Code.



GOOD LUCK...LET US KNOW WHAT HAPPENS!!
 

Ohiogal

Queen Bee
Boy are you looking at things improperly. You had a permit at one time which is why they can charge you with 4510.11. It was suspended/expired due to your idiocy. They are both misdemeanors of the first degree. The judge could find you guilty of either one. And the officer could correct the ticket.
§ 4510.11. Driving under suspension or in violation of license restriction.

(A) No person whose driver's or commercial driver's license or permit or nonresident operating privilege has been suspended under any provision of the Revised Code, other than Chapter 4509. of the Revised Code, or under any applicable law in any other jurisdiction in which the person's license or permit was issued shall operate any motor vehicle upon the public roads and highways or upon any public or private property used by the public for purposes of vehicular travel or parking within this state during the period of suspension unless the person is granted limited driving privileges and is operating the vehicle in accordance with the terms of the limited driving privileges.

(B) No person shall operate any motor vehicle upon a highway or any public or private property used by the public for purposes of vehicular travel or parking in this state in violation of any restriction of the person's driver's or commercial driver's license or permit imposed under division (D) of section 4506.10 or under section 4507.14 of the Revised Code.

(C) (1) Whoever violates this section is guilty of driving under suspension or in violation of a license restriction, a misdemeanor of the first degree. The court shall impose upon the offender a class seven suspension of the offender's driver's license, commercial driver's license, temporary instruction permit, probationary license, or nonresident operating privilege from the range specified in division (A)(7) of section 4510.02 of the Revised Code.



§ 4510.12. Operating motor vehicle without valid license.

(A) (1) No person, except those expressly exempted under sections 4507.03, 4507.04, and 4507.05 of the Revised Code, shall operate any motor vehicle upon a public road or highway or any public or private property used by the public for purposes of vehicular travel or parking in this state unless the person has a valid driver's license issued under Chapter 4507. of the Revised Code or a commercial driver's license issued under Chapter 4506. of the Revised Code.
(2) No person, except a person expressly exempted under sections 4507.03, 4507.04, and 4507.05 of the Revised Code, shall operate any motorcycle upon a public road or highway or any public or private property used by the public for purposes of vehicular travel or parking in this state unless the person has a valid license as a motorcycle operator that was issued upon application by the registrar of motor vehicles under Chapter 4507. of the Revised Code. The license shall be in the form of an endorsement, as determined by the registrar, upon a driver's or commercial driver's license, if the person has a valid license to operate a motor vehicle or commercial motor vehicle, or in the form of a restricted license as provided in section 4507.14 of the Revised Code, if the person does not have a valid license to operate a motor vehicle or commercial motor vehicle.
(B) Whoever violates this section is guilty of operating a motor vehicle without a valid license and shall be punished as follows:

(1) If the trier of fact finds that the offender never has held a valid driver's or commercial driver's license issued by this state or any other jurisdiction, the offense is a misdemeanor of the first degree.

(2) (a) Subject to division (B)(2)(b) of this section, if the offender's driver's or commercial driver's license or permit was expired at the time of the offense for no more than six months, the offense is a minor misdemeanor and if the offender's driver's or commercial driver's license or permit was expired at the time of the offense for more than six months, the offense is a misdemeanor of the fourth degree.

(b) (i) If the offender previously was convicted of or pleaded guilty to one violation of this section or a substantially equivalent municipal ordinance within the past three years, the offense is a misdemeanor of the third degree.

(ii) If the offender previously was convicted of or pleaded guilty to two violations of this section or a substantially equivalent municipal ordinance within the past three years, the offense is a misdemeanor of the second degree.





(iii) If the offender previously was convicted of or pleaded guilty to three or more violations of this section or a substantially equivalent municipal ordinance within the past three years, the offense is a misdemeanor of the first degree.





(C) The court shall not impose a license suspension for a first violation of this section or if more than three years have passed since the offender's last violation of this section or a substantially equivalent municipal ordinance.





(D) If the offender was convicted of or pleaded guilty to one or more violations of this section or a substantially equivalent municipal ordinance within the past three years, and if the offender's license was expired for more than six months at the time of the offense, the court shall impose a class seven suspension of the offender's driver license, commercial driver's license, temporary instruction permit, probationary license, or nonresident operating privilege from the range specified in division (A)(7) of section 4510.02 of the Revised Code.






HISTORY: 149 v S 123, § 1, eff. 1-1-04; 150 v H 52, § 1, eff. 6-1-04.
 
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Ohiogal

Queen Bee
OGofCRIMINALLAW said:
Efflandt really said it well. Great info. My 2-cents. Go get the LEARNER'S PERMIT reinstated. You haven't gone to court yet. You said you paid all fines related to the earlier mistakes. Kool. Make a call or go to the DMV and see what's up on getting re-instated BEFORE the court date....If you've basically been a pretty kool customer on the roads, traffic judges won't get all in ya face too much. They know people forget their licenses/permits, forget to check the expiration dates (within reason), etc, etc...

Often the judge will ask you "have you been re-instated?" even before you open your mouth (he justs wants to expedite the cases/docket and get the hell out of there too). So if you can say YES, it looks good for you.:) Answering yes also puts you in COMPLIANCE now--at which point the judge may simply assess you court costs and/or a fine. (WHEN YOUR NAME IS CALLED YOU COULD ALSO JUST SIMPLY SAY "YOUR HONOR I'VE BEEN RE-INSTATED" IN EFFECT BEATING THE JUDGE TO THE PUNCH). Of course, per Ohio Revised Statutes 4510.21 the judge could penalize you to the tune of a CLASS 7 SUSPENSION which according to RSOH 4510.02 means A DEFINITE PERIOD NOT TO EXCEED ONE YEAR (the entire statute is below):
If he does that and proves that he has a permit he better also be able to prove that he was driving with a licensed adult and meets all the other restrictions that permits in Ohio require. If he was driving around by himself he has even more problems and he won't be avoiding anything.
 

OGofCRIMINALLAW

Junior Member
Ohiogal said:
OGofCRIMINALLAW said:
If he does that and proves that he has a permit he better also be able to prove that he was driving with a licensed adult and meets all the other restrictions that permits in Ohio require. If he was driving around by himself he has even more problems and he won't be avoiding anything.
Ohio--at the end of the day, it's better he show up in court WITHIN COMPLAINCE than WITHOUT since he's already broken the law. No guarantee, of course, that things will go better for him--but i'd like to see him with some type of compliance on court day.

Depending on the judge (and how the sun rises) it may not go as bad as our young friend might envision.
 

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