ENRADD in PA

[sonnie1]

What is the name of your state? PA
My son received his first speeding ticket in Oxford Twp., New Oxford, PA. He was clocked 56 in a 35 using ENRADD. The officer told him he'd give him a break and wrote it for 50 in a 35. (3 pts.) There was only 1 officer clocking and writing citations. I have several questions:
1. If the location of the ENRADD device is written incorrectly on the citation, can this be used to fight his ticket? (He wrote: 780 Red Hill Rd. Hanover Rd. & Fern Drive). These 2 locations are approximately 3-5 miles apart. It has to be 1 or the other location. I say this because I have a scanner, all afternoon I kept hearing calls for traffic violations at the Red Hill Road location-this stop had 2 cars manning the station). I'm sure it was moved but the citation sites both addresses.
2. The citing officer told my son that if he pleads not guilty and tries to fight the ticket, he will raise the ticket to 56 in a 35 and 4 points. CAN THIS BE DONE? I always thought if you fight a traffic ticket, you can win or you can lose, but didn't know the ticket can be changed and points increased.
3. The officer also told my son that if he doesn't pay the fine in 10 days, they will come and put him in jail. I know that a warrent is put out, but in the times I've received traffice tickets, I've never had an officer tell me this stuff. He would say that I have 10 days to pay the ticket and that I have the choice to fight it. But never threatened that if I fought it, he would increase it.
4. My son was following a fellow soccer teammate's mother. I spoke to her and she said that he was behind her. She saw the speed trap and her and her son, said "Oh no, a speed trap." She looked at her speedometer and said she was only doing 40 in the 35 mph zone. She told me that she, and my son, were going along with traffic. My question is how can my son be doing 56 if she were doing 40 and approaching a stop sign?
My son doesn't deny that he may have been speeding, but not to the extent of 50 or 56mph. He really wants to just get the points reduced. Do you think this is worth fighting?What is the name of your state?

[Maestro64]

First off your son got caught in operation Smooth Operator

Originally Posted by sonnie1

What is the name of your state? PA
My son received his first speeding ticket in Oxford Twp., New Oxford, PA. He was clocked 56 in a 35 using ENRADD. The officer told him he'd give him a break and wrote it for 50 in a 35. (3 pts.) There was only 1 officer clocking and writing citations. I have several questions:
1. If the location of the ENRADD device is written incorrectly on the citation, can this be used to fight his ticket? (He wrote: 780 Red Hill Rd. Hanover Rd. & Fern Drive). These 2 locations are approximately 3-5 miles apart. It has to be 1 or the other location. I say this because I have a scanner, all afternoon I kept hearing calls for traffic violations at the Red Hill Road location-this stop had 2 cars manning the station). I'm sure it was moved but the citation sites both addresses.

Was this information preprint on the Ticket if so then you probably correct they has plan to operate in both locations and to same time writing tickets they had as much of the information pre-printed. If not then this is a very good thing to bring up when crossing the officer. Since there is no way someone can be speeding in two locations at the same time. Also, to exceed the speed limit it is location depended since not all roads have the same speed limits. One road could be 35 and the other could be 45 so in one case your son was speeding as defined by PA laws in other case 50 in 45 is not speeding.

Originally Posted by sonnie1

2. The citing officer told my son that if he pleads not guilty and tries to fight the ticket, he will raise the ticket to 56 in a 35 and 4 points. CAN THIS BE DONE? I always thought if you fight a traffic ticket, you can win or you can lose, but didn't know the ticket can be changed and points increased.

Once the ticket has been written it can be amended, and the judge can also change it if they feel so inclined to do so. But this is more of tactic by the officer to keep your son from fighting the ticket since they been catch 1000's of people in this operation and they do not want the police tie up in court fighting the ticket for the next few months. The real question did he is write anywhere on the ticket he was actually clocked at 56, if he did not have any notes on the ticket most likely the officer will have a hard time convincing the judge he was actually clocked at anything other than what was written on the ticket. ( The officer could have written something on his copy of ticket you can go to the court and request a copy to see what was written) Your son got what is known as road side discount.

Originally Posted by sonnie1

3. The officer also told my son that if he doesn't pay the fine in 10 days, they will come and put him in jail. I know that a warrent is put out, but in the times I've received traffice tickets, I've never had an officer tell me this stuff. He would say that I have 10 days to pay the ticket and that I have the choice to fight it. But never threatened that if I fought it, he would increase it.

Yes this is true, but in summary offense in PA they do not come looking for failure to pay they just suspend your license. This was just another scare tactic to make sure your son pays and does not fight the ticket.

Originally Posted by sonnie1

4. My son was following a fellow soccer teammate's mother. I spoke to her and she said that he was behind her. She saw the speed trap and her and her son, said "Oh no, a speed trap." She looked at her speedometer and said she was only doing 40 in the 35 mph zone. She told me that she, and my son, were going along with traffic. My question is how can my son be doing 56 if she were doing 40 and approaching a stop sign?
My son doesn't deny that he may have been speeding, but not to the extent of 50 or 56mph. He really wants to just get the points reduced. Do you think this is worth fighting?What is the name of your state?

This is because ENRADD has fatal flaw, it has two beams of lights that go across both lanes of traffic and if a car is coming the other way and hits one of the beams at about the same time as your son hit the first beam you can get a higher speed and there is no way for the officer to know this happen. Second, these operations are usually multi-officers, one officer is operation the ENRADD unit and there are other officer chasing cars down based on the description of what is heard over the radio. Usually is just color of a car and maybe type or make.


PM if you want more information on how to fight this if you feel like it worth fighting.

[sonnie1]

The ticket was not pre printed. It was hand written. On the line that asked for road info., the handwritten word 'twp.' was scratched out and 'SR1015' was handwritten.
Do I go to the courthouse or to the magistrate's office (where the payment was mailed to) for a copy of the officer's notes? The copy my son received did not have 56 mph written on it anywhere, only 50 mph in a 35 mph.
Also, my son's car is a nice, bright yellow saturn sc2 coupe. So it would stand out.

[JustAPal00]

Fern Dr is about 3/4 of a mile from Red Hill rd, both on Hanover St. He may have been spotted at the one and stopped at the other. Even if the officer makes a mistake here, the judge won't care. I fought a speeding ticket in Newberry Twp and the cop made the same mistake, judge said it didn't matter.

You can be charged at a later date, maybe he meant if your son plead NG he would change the ticket before the court date.

These are tough to beat. Try calling the officer and asking him to lower the charge to failure to obey a posted traffic sign. The fine is about the same, but no points. He may be a nice guy and do it, otherwise I would probably pay the fine and just drive carefully in the future.

[Maestro64]

I have to agree it could have been they were measuring speed in one location and pulled him over at the other. If they wrote both down that is actually pretty good.

If no where on the ticket it said anything about 56, the officer can not increase the ticket nor can it be used against him if he chooses to fight, BTW, he is the one that has to contest the ticket you can not do it nor would the judge allow you to talk for him. But it can be use if your son does not object to it.

Also, do not call the Officer, it is just better to show up on the hearing date and try to work a deal out before going in front of the judge. If the officer does not remember the circumstance he may offer 5 over and no points or if you are lucky you talk him down to what is know as a 3110 failure to obey a traffic control device.

Anyway, you can get copy of the officer side of the ticket at the location you mailed the ticket. You have to be persistent, since they might try and say they do not have it or you can not have copy, just remind them of the rules of discovery. It is your right to see any document they may use against your son, again your son must ask for it, not you.

Unless your son is willing to learn what it takes to stand up in court and fight a ticket, excuses will not work, his options are to pay and be done with it or hope you can work a deal out on the hearing date. Most, police and judge know that people fight to keep the points off and they are more interested in your money so they tend to negotiate as long as you did not give them any hassle at the stop.

[sonnie1]

As to the location of where he was pulled over, it was a completely different address (road). It was on Irishtown road, at the Evergreen estates entrance. The ENRADD was apparently set up at the Fern Drive and Hanover St. intersection. The first address listed on citation was where the previous speed trap was set and that was at 780 Red Hill road. So in no way are the 2 addresses the area where he was written up. I realize he has to be the one the magistrate talks to and so does he. He would just really like to have the points taken off and maybe via using the 3111 for disobeying traffic signs. Should my son go, in person, or via the telephone to request the notes from the citing officer?

[JustAPal00]

Is it possible that the ENRADD was set up at Fern Dr, but the officer was waiting at Red Hill, and when he saw your son turn on Irishtown it took him a minute to catch up? Are the "Evergreen Estates" the houses on the right as you make that sharp left?

[Maestro64]

Just go in person it usually easier, less run around that way.

Just so your know, ENRADD Transmits the data up to 2000ft away. I have seen where they have set them up a distance down the road and could not even see its location and then grab the next car coming down the road. Also these operation usually have more than one officer. Like I said before both officers must show to testify. The problem is you do not know who the second person was and if he there it would be hard to know.

If you know what your doing and what is allow and not allowed usually you can win a case like this. Also you could bring in the other mother to testify your son was following her and the speed she was going. Like I said before ENRADD Is not prefect but they think it is.

Trying to get 3111 is hard than just getting a ticket for 5 over and no points.

[bolo]

Some interesting aspects of ENRADD are discussed here...

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