Entrapment in MA???HELP

[tippmannman7]

I know it is some what long but I wanted to give all details, please read.
Massachusetts is where this all happened. I received a speeding ticket that I do not believe in any way, shape, or form should be held valid. So tell me what you think about the following situation:

When I was driving on 290, located after the Mass Pike, I was behind a cop. I left a HUGE amount of room between the cop and myself once we were on 290--roughly at least 8 car lengths (not sure of the length, I haven't been on the road since the ticket). I had accelerated up to 65 and didn't bother looking at my speedometer for a while because I was behind a cop and I figured he would be going around the same speed. After 3 miles of following the cop at the same distance he decided to break suddenly. I had no idea what was going on so I followed what the cop was doing and slammed my breaks on as well. At the time, we were both in the left lane and he moved over into the middle lane. I tried to out slow him but traffic wouldn't let me. At this point I couldn't have been going over 65. I passed him and then moved into the middle lane. As soon as I was in the middle lane he pulled me over. He came up to the car and asked me if I knew what I was being pulled over for, naturally I said no so that I wouldn't admit to something I hadn't done. He then asked if I had my license and registration on me. I said yes and handed them to him. He then asked me how fast I was going, I responded with the answer of 65.

Now here is when things become strange. He then says to me "if you were going 65 and I was going 85 then how was it that you were keeping up with me." I responded with I don't know. He repeated what he said: that he was going 85 and how he had not been pulling away a couple times to the point where he was badgering me. He then asked again: doesn't it make sense that at 85 I would pull away from you if you were going 65, I finally responded with a different answer then “I guess” and said that it made sense. I guess he got the answer he wanted because he asked another question. He asked if I had checked the speedometer and I said I did a little while ago. Then he asked if I was sure I was going 65 and I responded I think so. Then he said, "Well I don’t think that you were going 65 if I was going 85." Then he asked me when did I check it and asked a question right after that. He asked why did I slow down when I was next to him and I said I didn't want to pass him. He then proceeded to go to his car and write me a speeding citation.

Now here are the details of the ticket.
- Type of citation – motor veh. – oper.
- State – ct
- Class – d
- Cdl license – no
- Race – w
- Sex – m
- Non-inventory mv search – no
- Hazardous material – no
- Plate type – pan
- Make and type merc sedan
- Date of offence – d with an s with a circle
- Location of offence (include #, st, hwy, city or town) R6 290 EB x9 auburn
- Offense d. speeding – 90/17, civil, 80 in a 65 posted lidar clocked estimated - $150
- Speeding assessments include a $50 head injury surcharge $150 (They should add $50 for any speeding charge in mass yet he didn't which makes me think he is trying to get me to just pay the ticket. It should of been added, can I get off for that alone because of error?)
- All civil infraction
- In hand viol.

Other details
-I was behind the cop for 3 miles before he pulled me over
-there was one speed limit sign about 2 miles after I got onto 290 (65mph)
-I tested how fast I can stop say I was going 85 when I was behind him and in 2-3seconds with the same pressure I used before I brought the car down to 65
-he was behind me for about 5-8 seconds before he pulled me over
-I didn't see any laser or radar on the outside of the car (had to shoot from inside)
-traffic was moderate

There are several things I believe that will invalidate the ticket, but I am not familiar with MA laws. Any help would be greatly appreciated. One thing I need to know is what it means when they “estimated the speed”.

I believe that I was entrapped since the cop was going 85 (breaking the speed limit of 65) and he openly admitted it to me that he was going 85. He said he didn't think I was going 65 which suggests he didn't really know. He had to laser me (if he did) while moving and through the glass (within the 5-8 seconds he was behind me). I know I couldn't have been going faster than 65 when he was behind me.

If anything is unclear ask me about it. Thanks ahead of time.

Also I have heard a rumor that my insurance company may not hear about this because of it being out of state, doesn't seem right but I just wanted to know if points would transfer over or would my insurance never hear of it. If someone could also tell me the worst case scenario I would appreciate that.

 

[Raptoer]

First off, it is not entrapment because the officer in no way asked you to break the law, you assumed (apparently wrongly) that he would not exceed the legal speed.

He did not have to laser or radar speed check you for it to be valid, he instead paced you, he went at approximately the same speed, then looked at his speedometer.

Him switching into the middle lane, then having traffic force you to pass him was probably an attempt at getting behind you so that it would be understood who he was pulling over.

As you did not check your speedometer, it is entirely possible that you went over 65 without knowing it.

That being said, you could go through the hassle of trying to fight the ticket, which the only evidence that could be used to prove your innocence would be his dash-cam video. Or you could pay the 200$ fine.

Your insurance company will hear about it, as these marvelous computers share information.

 

[tippmannman7]

He did not have to laser or radar speed check you for it to be valid, he instead paced you, he went at approximately the same speed, then looked at his speedometer.

On the ticket is said that he used lidar (laser) but I saw no gun on the outside of the car. If he used it it was on the inside and he would of had to shoot through glass. I don't see where the estimation comes in on the ticket if he used lidar.

Also if he were to pace me then he would of had to of been behind me correct? When he was behind me I had already applied the breaks therefore I was already within the speed limit.

 

[Orcons]

On the ticket is said that he used lidar (laser) but I saw no gun on the outside of the car. If he used it it was on the inside and he would of had to shoot through glass. I don't see where the estimation comes in on the ticket if he used lidar.

Since none of us were there we can only guess. Here's my guess: he can't say that he paced you from in front as he would then have to admit to speeding. Emergency vehicles in Mass can only speed in emergency situations (MGL Chapter 89, Section 7B). It sounds like he didn't have his lights on and he had time to stop and give you a ticket so it is doubful that there was any real emergency.

Now, whether or not he really used lidar I don't know but as someone who regularly gets his doors blown in by state troopers late at night on Rt 3, when the only emergency is the coffee shop is about to close, I would love to see you go in and get the trooper to admit that he was going 85 also.

BTW, at 85 mph, you are going around 125 feet per second. At that speed 8 car lengths is not a huge amount of distance, it isn't even adequate.

 

[tippmannman7]

Since none of us were there we can only guess. Here's my guess: he can't say that he paced you from in front as he would then have to admit to speeding. Emergency vehicles in Mass can only speed in emergency situations (MGL Chapter 89, Section 7B). It sounds like he didn't have his lights on and he had time to stop and give you a ticket so it is doubful that there was any real emergency.

Now, whether or not he really used lidar I don't know but as someone who regularly gets his doors blown in by state troopers late at night on Rt 3, when the only emergency is the coffee shop is about to close, I would love to see you go in and get the trooper to admit that he was going 85 also.

BTW, at 85 mph, you are going around 125 feet per second. At that speed 8 car lengths is not a huge amount of distance, it isn't even adequate.

If I got him to admit that he was speeding in court before he even got behind me do you think that I would get off the charges? He didn't have his lights on. The car lengths that I said my not be right, I know I gave him a lot of room, I haven't been on the road lately to estimate the length.

 

[Orcons]

If I got him to admit that he was speeding in court before he even got behind me do you think that I would get off the charges? He didn't have his lights on. The car lengths that I said my not be right, I know I gave him a lot of room, I haven't been on the road lately to estimate the length.

No one can tell you what is going to happen. You should send a request to the trooper's barracks asking for copies of the trooper's copy of the citation (both sides) and records from the Lidar unit. Go to the NMA website MA page and you will find mention of how to make the request and what to ask for.

The trooper's copy of the citation should have any notes he took. That will give you an idea of what he is going to say. You should also return the ticket asking for a hearing. The first hearing will be with a clerk and your best bet is to raise the issues at that point. The cop doesn't have to be there but he would have to show at the next step (if you lose with the clerk) before the judge. If the clerk realizes that the trooper is going to have to admit to speeding before the judge he may want to just toss it at that point.

 

[Zigner]

Ok, so you get him to admit he was speeding...with that out of the way, please provide your DEFENSE against speeding...

 

[tippmannman7]

quick question on procedure

In MA is there a certain amount of time that a cop has to be behind someone to pull them over for speeding? For some reason I want to say that I have seen 1/8 of a mile thrown around somewhere but not sure.