Expired license/Towed Car

[amz1988]

California

Long story short, my mom was on her way to pick me up, she was pulled over and ticketed for driving with an expired license.

As the officer was checking her information, she called me. Well, I walked to where she was (she was less than a block away from where she was headed to pick me up). I have a valid driver's license and clean record.

She asked the officer if I could just drive us home. He said no and had the car towed.

This is my mother's first violation of this kind. Under law, did the cop have to have the car towed or could he have let me, a licensed driver, drive the car home?

Thanks for any information!

 

[ecmst12]

He could have, but was not required to.

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

That would have defeated the purpose of teaching her not to break the law and you to encourage it. You do of course realize she was also driving with no or invalidated insurance due to the license issue. Hopefully, the car is on a 30 day hold, which will discourage you both from doing this again.

 

[amz1988]

He could have, but was not required to.

Thank you for the info, was curious.

 

[amz1988]

That would have defeated the purpose of teaching her not to break the law and you to encourage it. You do of course realize she was also driving with no or invalidated insurance due to the license issue. Hopefully, the car is on a 30 day hold, which will discourage you both from doing this again.

My mother has learned her lesson, not that I need to prove that on this forum.

I didn't encourage anything, as I was not aware her license was expired, so please do not jump to conclusions.

Her car isn't on a hold, and I am really grateful for that.

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

So the officer did, in fact, cut her slack. Good Luck.

 

[ecmst12]

Insurance does not automatically become invalid just because a license expires. One would have to read the policy to know if that was the case here. So I guess OHR is a psychic now too

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

Insurance does not automatically become invalid just because a license expires. One would have to read the policy to know if that was the case here. So I guess OHR is a psychic now too

I would love to see what insurance policy you have that covers you in an accident when you do not have a valid drivers license. They call that an exclusion.

 

[ecmst12]

You'd be surprised at what your insurance doesn't exclude. Read your policy. It's harder than most people think for an insurance company to deny coverage to someone who's paid his bills.

 

[CdwJava]

First of all, no 30 day hold could have been imposed on an expired license.

Second, it is questionable whether or not the officer could have had the vehicle towed if a valid, licensed driver was on scene prior to the arrival of the two truck. Not only must there exist a statute authorizing the tow (VC 22651(p) in this case), but there must also be some articulated community caretaking function. Most often this is articulated away by explaining that the licensed driver would simply allow the unlicensed driver to continue to drive the vehicle and there are controlling cases that support this contention. If the towed vehicle was registered to the unlicensed driver, this argument will likely prevail ... if registered to another party altogether, then it loses some validity.

The registered owner can request a post-storage hearing within 10 days of the impound and the agency has to schedule the hearing within 48 hours. The R/O can try and argue that the impound was improper. If the registered owner prevails, the agency may have to absorb the cost of the storage and impound. My guess is that it will be an uphill battle, but, she loses only time for requesting and attending a hearing.

 

[davew128]

He could have, but was not required to.

Actually I'm not so sure about that. There was a CA law change not too long ago that addressed exactly this situation where the car would not be towed and impounded if an authorized licensed driver could arrive shortly to take it.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/2011/12/california-impounding-practices-change-for-unlicensed-drivers.html

 

[CdwJava]

Actually I'm not so sure about that. There was a CA law change not too long ago that addressed exactly this situation where the car would not be towed and impounded if an authorized licensed driver could arrive shortly to take it.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/2011/12/california-impounding-practices-change-for-unlicensed-drivers.html

This dealt with DUI and license checkpoints, not otherwise routine traffic impounds.

 

[I_Got_Banned]

Actually I'm not so sure about that. There was a CA law change not too long ago that addressed exactly this situation where the car would not be towed and impounded if an authorized licensed driver could arrive shortly to take it.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/2011/12/california-impounding-practices-change-for-unlicensed-drivers.html

The law you mention is VC 2814.2... And it specificlly only applies at DUI checkpoints...

2814.2.

(a) A driver of a motor vehicle shall stop and submit to a sobriety checkpoint inspection conducted by a law enforcement agency when signs and displays are posted requiring that stop.

(b) Notwithstanding Section 14602.6 or 14607.6, a peace officer or any other authorized person shall not cause the impoundment of a vehicle at a sobriety checkpoint if the driver’s only offense is a violation of Section 12500.

(c) During the conduct of a sobriety checkpoint, if the law enforcement officer encounters a driver who is in violation of Section 12500, the law enforcement officer shall make a reasonable attempt to identify the registered owner of the vehicle. If the registered owner is present, or the officer is able to identify the registered owner and obtain the registered owner’s authorization to release the motor vehicle to a licensed driver by the end of the checkpoint, the vehicle shall be released to either the registered owner of the vehicle if he or she is a licensed driver or to the licensed driver authorized by the registered owner of the vehicle. If a notice to appear is issued, the name and driver’s license number of the licensed driver to whom the vehicle was released pursuant to this subdivision shall be listed on the officer’s copy of the notice to appear issued to the unlicensed driver. When a vehicle cannot be released, the vehicle shall be removed pursuant to subdivision (p) of Section 22651, whether a notice to appear has been issued or not.​

​

​

As you can see, there are exclusions under 14602.6 and 14607.6... One deals with suspension related to DUIs/ignition interlock, and the other deals with repeat offenders. You might note that subsection (c) states that a reasonable effort to ID (and I assume contact) the R/O... And if those fail, then there might be little option but to tow it and see if they request a hearing as Carl described.

Lastly, as you can see the last sentence clearly references 22651(p) which is specifically geared towards impounds related to unlicensed drivers (often cited in violation of CVC 12500). That code section remains intact from before the enactment of CVC 2814.2 in 2012...

22651.

A peace officer, as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2 of the Penal Code, or a regularly employed and salaried employee, who is engaged in directing traffic or enforcing parking laws and regulations, of a city, county, or jurisdiction of a state agency in which a vehicle is located, may remove a vehicle located within the territorial limits in which the officer or employee may act, under the following circumstances:

**************

(p) When the peace officer issues the driver of a vehicle a notice to appear for a violation of Section 12500, 14601, 14601.1, 14601.2, 14601.3, 14601.4, 14601.5, or 14604 and the vehicle is not impounded pursuant to Section 22655.5. A vehicle so removed from the highway or public land, or from private property after having been on a highway or public land, shall not be released to the registered owner or his or her agent, except upon presentation of the registered owner’s or his or her agent’s currently valid driver’s license to operate the vehicle and proof of current vehicle registration, to the impounding law enforcement agency, or upon order of a court.​

​

​

 

[amz1988]

First of all, no 30 day hold could have been imposed on an expired license.

Second, it is questionable whether or not the officer could have had the vehicle towed if a valid, licensed driver was on scene prior to the arrival of the two truck. Not only must there exist a statute authorizing the tow (VC 22651(p) in this case), but there must also be some articulated community caretaking function. Most often this is articulated away by explaining that the licensed driver would simply allow the unlicensed driver to continue to drive the vehicle and there are controlling cases that support this contention. If the towed vehicle was registered to the unlicensed driver, this argument will likely prevail ... if registered to another party altogether, then it loses some validity.

The registered owner can request a post-storage hearing within 10 days of the impound and the agency has to schedule the hearing within 48 hours. The R/O can try and argue that the impound was improper. If the registered owner prevails, the agency may have to absorb the cost of the storage and impound. My guess is that it will be an uphill battle, but, she loses only time for requesting and attending a hearing.

Thank you so much for the detailed reply.

I know nothing about law and procedure, so bear with me. How does one go about requesting this hearing? I mean, where do I go (the court?), what kind of forms or information must I look for? After paying $198 to the to Tow Place, and $170 to the Sheriff's Department for the release form before we could even go to the tow place, I really would like to at least try at the uphill battle for my mom.

 

[I_Got_Banned]

How does one go about requesting this hearing?

One would request the hearing from the law enforcement agency that cited and ordered the tow and impound. The post storage hearing is made available pursuant to CVC 22852.

California Vehicle Code section 22852.

(a) Whenever an authorized member of a public agency directs the storage of a vehicle, as permitted by this chapter, or upon the storage of a vehicle as permitted under this section (except as provided in subdivision (f) or (g)), the agency or person directing the storage shall provide the vehicle’s registered and legal owners of record, or their agents, with the opportunity for a poststorage hearing to determine the validity of the storage.

(b) A notice of the storage shall be mailed or personally delivered to the registered and legal owners within 48 hours, excluding weekends and holidays, and shall include all of the following information:

(1) The name, address, and telephone number of the agency providing the notice.

(2) The location of the place of storage and description of the vehicle, which shall include, if available, the name or make, the manufacturer, the license plate number, and the mileage.

(3) The authority and purpose for the removal of the vehicle.

(4) A statement that, in order to receive their poststorage hearing, the owners, or their agents, shall request the hearing in person, writing, or by telephone within 10 days of the date appearing on the notice.​

(c) The poststorage hearing shall be conducted within 48 hours of the request, excluding weekends and holidays. The public agency may authorize its own officer or employee to conduct the hearing if the hearing officer is not the same person who directed the storage of the vehicle.

(d) Failure of either the registered or legal owner, or his or her agent, to request or to attend a scheduled hearing shall satisfy the poststorage hearing requirement.

(e) The agency employing the person who directed the storage shall be responsible for the costs incurred for towing and storage if it is determined in the poststorage hearing that reasonable grounds for the storage are not established.

(f) This section does not apply to vehicles abated under the Abandoned Vehicle Abatement Program pursuant to Sections 22660 to 22668, inclusive, and Section 22710, or to vehicles impounded for investigation pursuant to Section 22655, or to vehicles removed from private property pursuant to Section 22658.

(g) This section does not apply to abandoned vehicles removed pursuant to Section 22669 that are determined by the public agency to have an estimated value of five hundred dollars ($500) or less.​

(Amended by Stats. 2004, Ch. 650, Sec. 17. Effective January 1, 2005.)​

So the hearing is for the registered owner to discuss the circumstances that lead to the impound to see whether the vehicle can be released by the agency.

Before anyone can advise you further, you have to provide some information that is needed to figure out what went on... The questions are underlined below:

The question for you then is: Subsection 22852(b) describes a form/notice that was given to the driver and/or mailed to the registered owner of the vehicle. On that form, they have to provide the "authority" for the tow, meaning the reason the officer decided to impound the vehicle. What does it say on that form under the authority for impound?

Also, if your Mom was issued a citation, there should be a code section number on her citation... What is the code section cited there?

Who is the registered owner of the vehicle your Mom was driving?

The hearing, as I described above is to discuss the release of the vehicle to the legal owner or the registered owner... In this case, and if these fees have been paid:

After paying $198 to the to Tow Place, and $170 to the Sheriff's Department for the release form before we could even go to the tow place

... It sounds like the vehicle was already released! So the hearing is not going to do much at this point. How did the vehicle get released? Did your Mom have to do anything to get it released and if so, what did she do?

And even if there is something that can be done then it maybe regarding the fees that were paid. but in that case.....

I really would like to at least try at the uphill battle for my mom.

You cannot do much for your Mom. Whomever the registered owner who paid the cost of towing/impound/storage would be the one to try and get reimbursed for those fees and costs.