Failed to stop 21453

[ababab]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA

So i just got this ticket for 500 dollars for "Failure to stop" 21453 (A). I was making a right hand turn at a red light and didn't stop completely because the turn was safe. It was a photo enforced intersection.

It was also, literally, my very first night driving without anybody else in the car.

At the intersection, the cars in front of me were turning left (the lanes to my right), so there couldn't have been any pedestrians. There's also a no uturn sign posted at that intersection for the cars that were turning left, so I figured I was safe to proceed and didn't come to a complete stop. In my mind i had a green right arrow.

I cant afford this ticket. I don't have a job and I'm a college student. I'm also kind of pissed that the first night I go out driving I get charged 500 dollars. That's more than an entire years worth of public transportation costs.

Is there any way to get out of this ticket? Can I get community service or something? I'm probably not going to pay this if I can't get out of the fine and will just quit driving.

The transmission in my car is messed up and i actually have a check engine light for it. It slips when switching gears. Could I possibly use that as a defense?

I looked at the law and it just says you have to stop but nothing about making a complete stop. It also says you have to stop until you have the right of way, basically. But I already had the right of way, since there couldn't be any pedestrians and couldn't be anybody making a uturn.

 

[Zigner]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA

So i just got this ticket for 500 dollars for "Failure to stop" 21453 (A). I was making a right hand turn at a red light and didn't stop completely because the turn was safe. It was a photo enforced intersection.

It was also, literally, my very first night driving without anybody else in the car.

At the intersection, the cars in front of me were turning left (the lanes to my right), so there couldn't have been any pedestrians. There's also a no uturn sign posted at that intersection for the cars that were turning left, so I figured I was safe to proceed and didn't come to a complete stop. In my mind i had a green right arrow.

I cant afford this ticket. I don't have a job and I'm a college student. I'm also kind of pissed that the first night I go out driving I get charged 500 dollars. That's more than an entire years worth of public transportation costs.

Is there any way to get out of this ticket? Can I get community service or something? I'm probably not going to pay this if I can't get out of the fine and will just quit driving.

The transmission in my car is messed up and i actually have a check engine light for it. It slips when switching gears. Could I possibly use that as a defense?

I looked at the law and it just says you have to stop but nothing about making a complete stop. It also says you have to stop until you have the right of way, basically. But I already had the right of way, since there couldn't be any pedestrians and couldn't be anybody making a uturn.

I would suggest that you seek help for you hallucinations.

Seriously, the light was RED. You are a pretty new driver, so I'm SURE that you remember from the time you spent learning to drive that a red light means STOP. Not "stop if you want to".

 

[startedone]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

I'm probably not going to pay this if I can't get out of the fine and will just quit driving.

.

You know, you never get a DL until its paid .. wait a couple of years and it may be ten thousand dollars to get a DL back.

FYI


(sell the car to pay the fine & don't drive anymore--you seem willing to do that)

 

[ababab]

Thanks for the professional answer, Zigner.

Please limit your responses to advice to get out of the ticket (or saying my defenses are invalid) Thank you.

Also if you read the law it says, "Stop until it is safe to proceed." If you read what I posted instead of, what I'm assuming you did, looking for something you could troll me about, you'd realize I did stop. i just didn't come to a complete stop. It was safe to turn. i had the right of way. There could've been no pedestrians or cross traffic -- Hence, green arrow.

 

[startedone]

Thanks for the professional answer, Zigner.

Please limit your responses to advice to get out of the ticket (or saying my defenses are invalid). Thank you.

You posted that you don't understand what stopping is .. who is being goofy?

 

[ababab]

I never said that.

Anyway, the law doesn't say anything about coming to a complete stop.

 

[Zigner]

...you'd realize I did stop. i just didn't come to a complete stop.

There is no difference between a "stop" and a "complete stop". Stopping means a cessation of all forward movement. So, you did NOT stop, per your own admission.

 

[Zigner]

I never said that.

Anyway, the law doesn't say anything about coming to a complete stop.

You're right - it simply says to STOP.

I think your idea of getting rid of the car is a good one. You don't seem to have the mental comprehension that would allow you to be a safe driver.

 

[ababab]

If the law said to come to a complete stop, then people who idle (or whatever it is called when you're moving without your foot on the gas) when they approach an intersection, in other words, never cease forward momentum, would be guilty of running a red light if they idled until the light turned green.

I think your idea of getting rid of the car is a good one. You don't seem to have the mental comprehension that would allow you to be a safe driver.

It wasn't my idea to get rid of the car.

There is no difference between a "stop" and a "complete stop". Stopping means a cessation of all forward movement.

It is not defined in such a way in the law.

So i can reverse through a red light then?

 

[Antigone*]

I never said that.

Anyway, the law doesn't say anything about coming to a complete stop.

When is a stop a "green arrow in your mind" Really, I beg to differ. Cite your source.

 

[Zigner]

If the law said to come to a complete stop, then people who idle when they approach an intersection, in other words, never cease forward momentum, would be guilty of running a red light if they idled until the light turned green.

Wrong, because once the light turns green, the requirement to stop vanishes.

It wasn't my idea to get rid of the car.

No, but you said you'd stop driving.

It is not defined in such a way in the law.

Sure it is.

CVC 587. "Stop or stopping" when prohibited shall mean any cessation of
movement of a vehicle, whether occupied or not, except when
necessary to avoid conflict with other traffic or in compliance with
the direction of a police officer or official traffic control device
or signal.

 

[ababab]

Wrong, because once the light turns green, the requirement to stop vanishes.

21453. (a) A driver facing a steady circular red signal alone shall stop at a marked limit line, but if none, before entering the crosswalk on the near side of the intersection or, if none, then before entering the intersection, and shall remain stopped until an indication to proceed is shown, except as provided in subdivision (b).

But they have to remain stopped, but they were never stopped, so how can they remain stopped?

When is a stop a "green arrow in your mind" Really, I beg to differ. Cite your source.

I had the right of way. No pedestrians could cross at that time. There couldn't have been cross traffic because of a no u-turn sign. Aren't those the conditions that are present whenever there is a green right arrow?

I have to admit I didn't expect there to be so many trolls here. Kind of funny though. None of you are even lawyers either, so you probably wouldn't even know a good defense from a bad one.

No, but you said you'd stop driving.

Oh ok. Sorry, I just had to point out the irony.

587. "Stop or stopping" when prohibited shall mean any cessation of movement of a vehicle, whether occupied or not, except when necessary to avoid conflict with other traffic or in compliance with the direction of a police officer or official traffic control device or signal.

Any cessation of movement?
That's kind of oddly worded.

Anyway, i did have a cessation of movement. It just wasn't a complete and total cessation of movement. Since any cessation of movement is covered by this law, and I had a type of cessation of movement, accordingly I did stop.

 

[Zigner]

Anyway, i did have a cessation of movement. It just wasn't a complete and total cessation of movement. Since any cessation of movement is covered by this law, and I had a type of cessation of movement, accordingly I did stop.

By definition, if you had a cessation of movement, there was no movement. There is no such thing as a "total cessation" because it's not needed.

I am beginning to think that the only troll here is you.


ETA: What you did is to slow, not stop.

 

[ababab]

Anyway, there were other things in my post you could respond to instead of trying to find something to troll me over. However, given that you aren't an attorney and probably have no experience or knowledge of the field, I can see why you chose your topic.

Could i get community service in lieu of a fine.
Is saying my car was malfunctioning a valid defense.

etc.

By definition, if you had a cessation of movement, there was no movement. There is no such thing as a "total cessation" because it's not needed.

I am beginning to think that the only troll here is you.


ETA: What you did is to slow, not stop.

I guess. i could probably argue this, but I have school.

Happy trolling.

 

[Gail in Georgia]

"Is saying my car was malfunctioning a valid defense."

No, and it's likely to get you in more trouble if you state you were driving a malfunctioning vehicle.


Use the argument that while the law says you have to stop, it doesn't say you have to come to a complete stop. Give the judge a chuckle that day.

Gail