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Failure To Maintain Reasonable Control - Ohio

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What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Ohio


My car left the road.
I got stuck in snow.
The officer showed up long after it happened.
When he arrived I was hooked up to another truck with a tow strap.
We had 8 inches of accumulated snow that day.
The lane markers were not visible at all.
Oncoming trafic (2 lane road, 1 in each direction) was encroaching in my lane.
I was staying as far right as I thought was safe to avoid head on collision.

When I started sliding I did everything that you are suppose to do in the situation and safely got my car off the road without incident (other than getting stuck in a snow drift).


I feel like I did all the right things, in fact I almost feel like I should have recieved a pat on the back for how I handled it. But I got a ticket instead.

If it was just a ticket I wouldn't feel so desperate about it but it's a misdemeanor with 2 points and I can't afford that.

I fel like I'm stuck and I have no choice but to defend myself - I'm not looking forward to it, I'm literally scared to death over it.

Here is what I'm thinking of in terms of defending myself:

No witness: The police officer can't testify to anything other than the location of my car when he arrived. In fact there was a witness at the scene that had to have witnessed at least as much as the officer did and the officer didn't take a statement and by asking me to wait in my car, in effect denied me the opportunity to get a statement from the witness.


The Term Reasonable:

That given the circumanstances and conditions that I was operating my vehicle in accordance with published advice from the Ohio BMV, the NTSB and the Ohio Saftey Commission. So that while I may have left the road I never lost reasonable control. That I maintained control and avoided serious incident because of my maintenance of control (seriously - the truth).




Here's the Deal:

I wouldn't have even been driving in the weather that we had that day if I wasn't on my way to my Alcohol Rehabilitation Program at that time.


Not court ordered, completely voluntary - I'm not sure that I actually have a drinking issue but I did get an OVI (DUI) a couple of years ago (seriously the only time I've been behind the wheel after drinking. Really I didn't think I was over the limit) and because of that I want to make sure that I do or do not clinically have an alcohol problem.



I'm trying to be as honest as I can with you guys so if anyone thinks there is something I'm holding back let me know and I'll spill it.

All I'm looking for is advice. The only thing is that I simply cannot just pay the fine and admit guilt. I have to at least fight for a charge without points.


I've heard that this is almost indefensible But I don't really have a choice at this point unless the prosecutor offers me a deal at my pretrial on March 12th. Assuming he doesn't I have to do my best to get ready for this.



Thanks in advance and for your patience with me.

-Chris
 
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The Occultist

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Ohio


My car left the road.
I got stuck in snow.
The officer showed up long after it happened.
When he arrived I was hooked up to another truck with a tow strap.
We had 8 inches of accumulated snow that day.
The lane markers were not visible at all.
Oncoming trafic (2 lane road, 1 in each direction) was encroaching in my lane.
I was staying as far right as I thought was safe to avoid head on collision.
Neat story.

When I started sliding I did everything that you are suppose to do in the situation and safely got my car off the road without incident (other than getting stuck in a snow drift).
You know what would have been better than that? Not sliding in the first place.


I feel like I did all the right things, in fact I almost feel like I should have recieved a pat on the back for how I handled it. But I got a ticket instead.
You got ticketed for sliding, which is certainly a clearcut definition of Failure to Maintain Reasonable Control. How you handled the vehicle after the slide is completely irrelevant as you should not have been sliding in the first place.

If it was just a ticket I wouldn't feel so desperate about it but it's a misdemeanor with 2 points and I can't afford that.
Find an attorney to help you. Local attorneys know best what the courts want to hear, and as such have the highest potential for yielding the most favorable results. Many attorneys will offer free/cheap consultations, so you should take advantage of this and sit down with a couple to see what insight they may have to offer.

I fel like I'm stuck and I have no choice but to defend myself - I'm not looking forward to it, I'm literally scared to death over it.
People get tickets all the time; it's not the end of the world.

Here is what I'm thinking of in terms of defending myself:

No witness: The police officer can't testify to anything other than the location of my car when he arrived. In fact there was a witness at the scene that had to have witnessed at least as much as the officer did and the officer didn't take a statement and by asking me to wait in my car, in effect denied me the opportunity to get a statement from the witness.
What did you tell the officer when he showed up? If you told him that you slid off the road, then that's all the officer needs.

If you didn't tell him that, what fabrication did you come up with to explain why you were in the position you were in? Keep in mind that if you try to tell a lie in court and are caught in it, things will get very, very bad for you.

Either way, it doesn't really take a detective to figure out why you were off the road. If a reasonable person can infer what happened, that's usually how a judge is going to rule.


The Term Reasonable:

That given the circumanstances and conditions that I was operating my vehicle in accordance with published advice from the Ohio BMV, the NTSB and the Ohio Saftey Commission. So that while I may have left the road I never lost reasonable control. That I maintained control and avoided serious incident because of my maintenance of control (seriously - the truth).
The legal standpoint here is that you never should have started sliding to begin with.

Perhaps you should post the specific code you are being charged with so we can look it up to see the specifics of it.




Here's the Deal:

I wouldn't have even been driving in the weather that we had that day if I wasn't on my way to my Alcohol Rehabilitation Program at that time.
I'm sorry to hear that, but the irony is somewhat amusing.



I'm trying to be as honest as I can with you guys so if anyone thinks there is something I'm holding back let me know and I'll spill it.
I don't really think you're holding back, I just think you're mistaken here. But again, please provide the code and we'll see if that can shed some light on things.

All I'm looking for is advice. The only thing is that I simply cannot just pay the fine and admit guilt. I have to at least fight for a charge without points.
Plea bargains happen all the time. It'll be easier to get one if you have a clean driving record. I still recommend using an attorney as they will most easily be able to get a plea bargain since they typically, depending on which lawyer you go with, have a good rapport with the courts. You are a nobody that is biased with no knowledge of the law; they have no real reason to offer you a plea bargain (please note, that was not meant to be an insult, just making a point as to how valuable an attorney can be).


I've heard that this is almost indefensible But I don't really have a choice at this point unless the prosecutor offers me a deal at my pretrial on March 12th. Assuming he doesn't I have to do my best to get ready for this.
If there's a way to fight it, I just really don't believe you'll be able to do it yourself.



Thanks in advance and for your patience with me.

-Chris
Sure thing.
 
Perhaps you should post the specific code you are being charged with so we can look it up to see the specifics of it.

4511.202
Operation without being in reasonable control of vehicle, trolley, or streetcar.
(A) No person shall operate a motor vehicle, trackless trolley, streetcar, agricultural tractor, or agricultural tractor that is towing, pulling, or otherwise drawing a unit of farm machinery on any street, highway, or property open to the public for vehicular traffic without being in reasonable control of the vehicle, trolley, streetcar, agricultural tractor, or unit of farm machinery.

(B) Whoever violates this section is guilty of operating a motor vehicle or agricultural tractor without being in control of it, a minor misdemeanor.

Effective Date: 01-01-2004; 2007 HB9 10-18-2007



It seems very broad to me. I have tried local attorneys but they all want some kind of money in the end, a few have been very positive listening to my self defense but pretty much it stays at self defense without a minimin of 2500 bucks which I simply can't do.





Thanks Occultist
 
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Hey There

Member
4511.202 Operation without being in reasonable control of vehicle. REASONABLE, not total.

That given the circumanstances and conditions that I was operating my vehicle in accordance with published advice from the Ohio BMV, the NTSB and the Ohio Saftey Commission. So that while I may have left the road I never lost reasonable control. That I maintained control and avoided serious incident because of my maintenance of control (seriously - the truth).
A book published by NOLO on contesting traffic tickets has information to help with a proper defense and may be available at a local library.

A Google Search: with key phrases such as Contesting Ohio Traffic Tickets etc. will bring up websites with
additional information.

The key question to be answered is whether a police officer is authorized to issue a citation for something he hasn't observed when no accident occured.

Local court rules are of importance , particularly if a jury trial is an objective as well as an appeal if ruled against.
A court clerk can provide you with rules but is prohibited from giving legal advice.

It would be interesting to note how many drivers are cited for sliding into snowbanks.

Best Regards,
Hey There
 
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Jim_bo

Member
It seems the whole thing revolves around the word "reasonable". I don't know that breaking traction on ice would be unreasonable as I am sure that on ice covered roads, the overwhelming majority of vehicles break traction at one point or another. If breaking traction on ice did constitute "unreasonable", then that interpretation would make violators out of almost everyone on the road that day (including the cops). As a matter of fact, most State's driving handbook even offer directions on how to manuever in case your car breaks traction. This certainly implies that you can break traction and still be legal.

I think the fact that you brought your vehicle to a stop safely implies more that you were in reasonable control. I think I'd cross examine the cop and ask if he ever broke traction on ice. If he says yes, then ask him if he committed a violation and was he subsequently ticketed? The obvious point would be... simply breaking traction should not constitute a lack of "reasonable control".

Also, I think it would be a huge stretch of rational thought to consider getting stuck in the snow to be an "accident". However, there are those here who are willing to stretch in order to tell you that you are a lawbreaker.

Finally, the issue about the Alcohol Rehab... I wouldn't bring it up.
 
It seems the whole thing revolves around the word "reasonable". ....

.....I think the fact that you brought your vehicle to a stop safely implies more that you were in reasonable control. I think I'd cross examine the cop and ask if he ever broke traction on ice. If he says yes, then ask him if he committed a violation and was he subsequently ticketed?

.....
Also, I think it would be a huge stretch of rational thought to consider getting stuck in the snow to be an "accident". ...

....Finally, the issue about the Alcohol Rehab... I wouldn't bring it up.

I agree that "reasonable" is where I need to focus.

I'm not sure, however that it makes any difference that the officer may or may not have lost control at any point or that other people also did. It kind of seems like being arrested for disturbiung the peace at a riot and claiming that alot of other people did the same thing.


Also police on duty aren't subject to the same traffic laws (rightfully so I'd say) so what he did or didn't do is probably irrelevant. Although If I could ask him about breaking traction and his ability to maintain "reasonable" control I could help my defense on the word "reasonable"


On the Alcohol Rehab, I'm not an alcoholic but it's not something I'd bring up. I only mentioned it here as a matter being forthright
 

Alex23

Member
Honestly, getting a ticket for getting stuck in the snow is pretty lame. The police are out in the cold to help people who are stuck, hopefully, not to harass them. I think.
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
Honestly, getting a ticket for getting stuck in the snow is pretty lame. The police are out in the cold to help people who are stuck, hopefully, not to harass them. I think.
What a pearl of wisdom...
 

I_Got_Banned

Senior Member
A "reasonable argument" AGAINST your "reasonable" argument!

I agree that "reasonable" is where I need to focus. . . . .
Although If I could ask him about breaking traction and his ability to maintain "reasonable" control I could help my defense on the word "reasonable"
I am not sure if breaking traction had anything to do with your ending up in a snow drift...

To me, breaking traction is if and when you are at a stand still, you step on the gas pedal and because the ground is slippery, your tires begin to spin rather than having enough traction to move the vehicle.

You ended up in a snow drift because: -

· (my guess) you were in the procees of making a turn when you lost control (your speed can arguably be a huge factor in your losing control);
· your car started to skid; and for a brief moment or two, you had lost "reasonable control of your vehicle";
· At that point in time (while you were stuck in that snow drift) and although your vehicle was no longer moving (not sliding slipping but not even moving) I could argue that you still had no "reasonable control" over your vehicle simply because if you did, you would have been well on your way rather than being stuck like a decoy duck waiting for someone with a hitch and a rope.
 

Orcons

Member
This seems pretty ridiculous. The fact is, the officer is assuming that the driver ended up in the snow due to not exercising reasonable control. For all the officer knows, this driver was driving very carefully, given the conditions, and in total control of the vehicle when some nut case came screaming by going much too fast for conditions and driving erratically. This driver could have been forced to try to avoid this other driver and in doing so ended up in the snow bank.

As someone else pointed out, it is a lame ticket. I fail to see how being in a snow bank is prima facie evidence of out of control driving. Having said that, you got the ticket and you should fight it.
 

LSCAP

Member
Go to the library. They usually have the necessary law books, AND, decisions on other cases.

Getting stuck in the snow is, in itself, not a “Vehicle Accident.”
I guess I missed something. What were you towing?


4511.202 Operation without being in reasonable control of vehicle, trolley, or streetcar.
(A) No person shall operate a motor vehicle, trackless trolley, streetcar, agricultural tractor, or agricultural tractor that is towing, pulling, or otherwise drawing a unit of farm machinery on any street, highway, or property open to the public for vehicular traffic without being in reasonable control of the vehicle, trolley, streetcar, agricultural tractor, or unit of farm machinery.

(B) Whoever violates this section is guilty of operating a motor vehicle or agricultural tractor without being in control of it, a minor misdemeanor.

Effective Date: 01-01-2004; 2007 HB9 10-18-2007
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
Go to the library. They usually have the necessary law books, AND, decisions on other cases.

Getting stuck in the snow is, in itself, not a “Vehicle Accident.”
Our OP didn't just get "stuck in the snow"
 

The Occultist

Senior Member
This seems pretty ridiculous. The fact is, the officer is assuming that the driver ended up in the snow due to not exercising reasonable control. For all the officer knows, this driver was driving very carefully, given the conditions, and in total control of the vehicle when some nut case came screaming by going much too fast for conditions and driving erratically. This driver could have been forced to try to avoid this other driver and in doing so ended up in the snow bank.

As someone else pointed out, it is a lame ticket. I fail to see how being in a snow bank is prima facie evidence of out of control driving. Having said that, you got the ticket and you should fight it.
Your argument may or may not be debunked based on what the OP told the officer.

OP, what exactly did you tell the officer when he asked you what happened?
 
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