Failure to Stop at Red Light (21453 C) -- California

[redlight_first]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? California

Hi All,
Today I received my first ticket having violation code 21453 (c). I was taking my 7 month pregnant wife to the hospital and was in hurry. Thought the signal was Yellow and didn't stop before taking right turn. However, signal turned RED at the time of turn and my photo was taken, I also noticed that and thought I wouldn't get any ticket because there was no Notice of "No turn on Red" or such messages. And couldn't brake hard as that would have impact on my wife.
But unfortunately, I received the ticket with VC 21453 (c) and description "Failure to Stop at Red Light"

I watched the video and seems like yes, I didn't stop before taking right and made mistake . Now do I have any options? And Do I have any chance to contest this violation?

Any help here is greatly appreciated!!

 

[Zigner]

I also noticed that and thought I wouldn't get any ticket because there was no Notice of "No turn on Red" or such messages.

You have to STOP before making a turn on red when it's allowed.

 

[redlight_first]

Thanks for the reply..however, the citation that i have received is 21453 subsection (c) instead of subsection (a)...whereas there wasn't any red arrow at the signal...
should i go ahead and contest based on this fact? what are my chances of judge giving decision in my favor?

 

[Zigner]

Thanks for the reply..however, the citation that i have received is 21453 subsection (c) instead of subsection (a)...whereas there wasn't any red arrow at the signal...
should i go ahead and contest based on this fact? what are my chances of judge giving decision in my favor?

Sure, give it a shot. Seems like you were charged with the wrong sub-section.

As for the chances...dunno. Sounds good, IF your information is all correct.

 

[I_Got_Banned]

Question the officer about the "arrow", cite the statute that you were charged with (print out three copies, one for the judge, one for the officer and one for you). Highlight or underline the "arrow" part.
Also, take a picture of the light... showing there is no arrow...
Don't suggest that you should have been cited for (a). Just argue that you did not violate subsection (c) and request a dismissal.

 

[demurringdude]

Thanks for the reply..however, the citation that i have received is 21453 subsection (c) instead of subsection (a)...whereas there wasn't any red arrow at the signal...
should i go ahead and contest based on this fact? what are my chances of judge giving decision in my favor?

If less than 15 days have elapsed since the incident, then don't do anything yet. You don't want to alert the company that sent your ticket that they goofed, because they could send you a corrected ticket if they do it within the 15 days.

After the 15 days are up, it's too late for them to fix the ticket. If you go to court, or do a trial by declaration, you will win. They will have a video tape in court that shows there is no arrow signal. If the police don't drop it first, the judge will dismiss it. It's a $500 ticket, so it's worth fighting. Good luck.

PS - 7-month pregnant wife is not a defence.

 

[redlight_first]

Thanks all for your help...
@demurringdude..thanks for pointing out 15 days time..i will not do anything now as it I am still under 15 day time period...and yes it is indeed 500$ ticket
And i will not be defending based on 7 month pregnant wife...

@I_Got_Banned..that is exactly what i will be highlighting in TBD...i am going to follow the steps available @http://www.helpigotaticket.com/declar/index.html.

I will keep you all posted with proceedings...thanks again for your help...

 

[I_Got_Banned]

If less than 15 days have elapsed since the incident, then don't do anything yet. You don't want to alert the company that sent your ticket that they goofed, because they could send you a corrected ticket if they do it within the 15 days.

After the 15 days are up, it's too late for them to fix the ticket. If you go to court, or do a trial by declaration, you will win. They will have a video tape in court that shows there is no arrow signal. If the police don't drop it first, the judge will dismiss it. It's a $500 ticket, so it's worth fighting. Good luck.

PS - 7-month pregnant wife is not a defence.

Care to cite the code section that only allows them 15 days to amend a citation?

 

[demurringdude]

Care to cite the code section that only allows them 15 days to amend a citation?

It's an automated ticket, so they have 15 days to deliver a correct ticket to you. 40518(a) and (b). If you draw their attention to their error before 15 days, they have time just to press a button and issue a whole new ticket, so there's no point in making it that easy for them.

Could they amend a citation after 15 days? Don't see how they could do that and comply with 40518 (b), since that requires them to tell you what you are charged with inside of 15 days. I doubt they even have a process for amending these tickets, they are just a sausage factory. They just let the courts throw the bad sausages out if the defendant shows up.

Even if the sausage factory had someone to do it, they definitely aren't going to do it if you don't draw their attention to it. So I would recommend do nothing until trial day. They can't amend it at trial.

 

[I_Got_Banned]

It's an automated ticket, so they have 15 days to deliver a correct ticket to you. 40518(a) and (b).

Good find. However, that might not apply to a "notice of correction"/amendment.

Could they amend a citation after 15 days? Don't see how they could do that and comply with 40518 (b), since that requires them to tell you what you are charged with inside of 15 days.

40518(b) only says that the "appear date" must be a minimum of 10 days after the notice is delivered.

40518.

(a) Whenever a written notice to appear has been issued by a peace officer or by a qualified employee of a law enforcement agency on a form approved by the Judicial Council for an alleged violation of Section 22451, or, based on an alleged violation of Section 21453, 21455, or 22101 recorded by an automated enforcement system pursuant to Section 21455.5 or 22451, and delivered by mail within 15 days of the alleged violation to the current address of the registered owner of the vehicle on file with the department, with a certificate of mailing obtained as evidence of service, an exact and legible duplicate copy of the notice when filed with the magistrate shall constitute a complaint to which the defendant may enter a plea. Preparation and delivery of a notice to appear pursuant to this section is not an arrest.

(b) A notice to appear shall contain the name and address of the person, the license plate number of the person's vehicle, the violation charged, including a description of the offense, and the time and place when, and where, the person may appear in court or before a person authorized to receive a deposit of bail. The time specified shall be at least 10 days after the notice to appear is delivered.​

​

​

 

[demurringdude]

Good find. However, that might not apply to a "notice of correction"/amendment.

You are probably right. I know they can amend the name of the driver, so perhaps they can amend other items too. But I just don't think they bother doing that, it's too specific to each ticket and hard to automate. They need to keep everything boilerplate, otherwise the sausage factory gets jammed up.

I suspect you could have fun at trial with the fact that someone at Redflex swore under penalty of perjury that you turned against an arrow that didn't exist, and then later swore under penalty of perjury that you didn't. Probably enough to dismiss the ticket.

My real point about the 15 days is that they don't need to amend the ticket if they realize their error in that time - they just send a brand new ticket. After 15 days, it may not be impossible, but its a lot more difficult.

Based on my own experience, I'd say that once these tickets get printed, no human looks at them again until trial, even if you are vigorously contesting.

 

[I_Got_Banned]

You are probably right. I know they can amend the name of the driver, so perhaps they can amend other items too.

So "it can be amended" after the 15 days then!!!

But I just don't think they bother doing that, it's too specific to each ticket and hard to automate.

The process that is utilized in issuing these citation involves a sworn police officer who is assigned to that duty alone. He/she reviews video tapes all day, looks at the related pictures for each violation and issues the citation accordingly. For all we know, the error committed in this case/thread (subsection (c) instead of subsection (a)) could be a simple typo by the issuing officer. Who knows what happened?

I suspect you could have fun at trial with the fact that someone at Redflex swore under penalty of perjury that you turned against an arrow that didn't exist, and then later swore under penalty of perjury that you didn't.

These citations are not issued by "someone at Redflex". The first 2 lines of 40518(a):

Whenever a written notice to appear has been issued by a peace officer or by a qualified employee of a law enforcement agency ​

... Last I checked, Redflex is NOT a law enforcement agency.

My real point about the 15 days is that they don't need to amend the ticket if they realize their error in that time - they just send a brand new ticket. After 15 days, it may not be impossible, but its a lot more difficult.

Why is it "difficult"? The amendment form is literally 4" X 8.5"... Fill in a few blank spaces and they're done. If they have some sort of review process for these citations then its really easy to catch errors (2 heads are better than one).

Based on my own experience, I'd say that once these tickets get printed, no human looks at them again until trial, even if you are vigorously contesting.

You don't know that for sure though... I would guess that "some" are in fact reviewed. especially those that are issued by someone who has flagrantly erred before. Give it time though... Red light cameras are relatively new here.

 

[demurringdude]

I'm not sure that the normal amendment form you mention can be used on this type of ticket. Since the officer doesn't hand you the ticket, it must include an affidavit, sworn under penalty of perjury, that the affiant saw a video of the vehicle doing a specific illegal thing. So they could change the driver name, for example, because that's not in the affidavit. But if they changed the offence, because the red light arrow wasn't even there, they would be admitting that they perjured themselves. I doubt it's possible, and I even more doubt that it ever happens. If someone knows otherwise, have at it.

 

[Zigner]

I'm not sure that the normal amendment form you mention can be used on this type of ticket. Since the officer doesn't hand you the ticket, it must include an affidavit, sworn under penalty of perjury, that the affiant saw a video of the vehicle doing a specific illegal thing. So they could change the driver name, for example, because that's not in the affidavit. But if they changed the offence, because the red light arrow wasn't even there, they would be admitting that they perjured themselves. I doubt it's possible, and I even more doubt that it ever happens. If someone knows otherwise, have at it.

Or, perhaps, they'd be admitting they made a human error.

 

[redlight_first]

Thanks all for very good points..however, I am little confused after going through all the posts..
@I_Got_Banned...does it mean that they can amend the ticket from subsection (c) to (a)?