Failure to stop at Stop Sign

[AngelaTing]

What is the name of your state? New Jersey

Yesturday, i recieved a ticket for not stopping at a stop sign. I know i stopped and i told him i stopped but he still ticketed me.

He said i rolled and didn't stop... but i clearly remember stopping and then inching up a little to see the road clearer to see if any cars are coming before i can cross the intersection to go straight (there was bushes blocking my view where i stopped). After i inched up, i see a there is a school bus on my left with his right turn signal blinking, therefore i went ahead to give her room to turn. After that the cop came from around the corner and pulled me over. He said i didn't stop and i responded i did stop and i went to make room because i saw the school bus wanting to turn into the road i was on. then he wanted to give me another ticket for unchanged address on my drivers license. Even though I did say i was heading home, but it's my boyfriend's apartment and i'm just staying with him because its closer to my school. I have a permanent address with my parents at another township. I explained that to him and he didn't change his mind about giving me the ticket for failure to change address. He also called in a woman cop to inspect my car. She said my car smelled like marjiuana, and demanded i should get out of the car so she can search me and the car. They found nothing of course and my car doesn't smell like marjiuana, it does smell like cigrettes though. i think the cop was just being anal because its the end of the month. Its like a woman's mentrual cycle.. PMS once a month because they can and have to. Anyway, i did stop and i don't need to change my address. Technically i don't live in the apartment, i have nothing addressed to the apartment, and i'm still a dependant under my parents.

Is it possible i can claim not guilty for both tickets? Should i get a lawyer? should i look for that bus driver to be a witness? I didn't do anything wrong. i don't want to pay for tickets that doesn't correspond to anything that i did and didn't do.

[seniorjudge]

Q: Is it possible i can claim not guilty for both tickets?

A: Yes.

[LSCAP]

Go back to the intersection and take pictures of the bushes and the stop sign. Point the camera in the direction of where the officer was when you were in the car at the stop sign or when someone else stops at the sign.
Like take a picture from a safe place, pointed at a car stopped at the sign and also in the direction of where the officer was, and showing the bush.
Then go to where the officer was and take a picture of the bushes again. Again preferably with a car stopped at the sign.
The driver should not be visible when at the stop sign, from where the officer was.
I know for a fact that that has worked.
The defense is that you stopped and then eased forward to see.
The school bus came after you started moving forward, so I wouldn't mention it or it will seem you saw the bus before you stopped, and ran the sign which is a common mistake.

As to your address, what made him think you live somewhere other than your actual address? I don’t see how you can be found guilty to that one anyway.
Anyway bring a letter, or bill from your actual address. Preferably with a date on or in the body of the letter. If you can.
Moving to a different address while attending school is very common. Or most of the college students in the country are in trouble.

[AngelaTing]

i acutally have no idea where the cop was parked. he pulled me over after i have already drove 2 blocks away and made a turn. I didn't think i did anything wrong and didn't think i would get pulled over. The cop did say he was standing right beside his car somewhere and saw me clearly. But i dont' recall spotting a cop anywhere. and he said if i had looked left and right at the stop sign i'd see him.. I looked but i don't really pay attention to parked cars on the side of the road thats not in my way or moving toward my way when i'm stopped at a stop sign. I saw clear passage on my right first and then i looked left and saw a school bus with the signal to turn on my left.
its habitual i always look right first... bad habit though because if i was inching to look right and thers a car coming from my left , i'd probably get in the way of the car coming from the left.
anyway, so i couldn't have seen the bus before i stopped because the bushes are in my way already... unless....
if i stopped 3 seconds .. looked right and left and cant see... and then inched...and then went ahead without the 3 second stop-is that considered stopping? cuz i did stop. i did look... i just looked again and yielded.. in pennsylvania is legal to do so i know that.
and if it sounds like i rushed to go before the bus got there for my own benefit, its not true, i went a little earlier after i spotted the bus to make way for him to turn.

[cepe10]

You can usually make you stop anywhere within ~10 ft before the stop sign inching forward afterwards for an improved sight distance is perfectly legal. I believe this is why you should get the pictures to show that you did stop within the prescribed area and the officer may not have been in position to see the entire "stopping area"

You may also want to check the location/height of the sign.

see tha manual...

[url]http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/HTM/2003/part2/part2b1.htm#section2B04[/url]

[Zigner]

Cepe -
How do you propse she argue that the officer wasn't able to see the entire stopping area?
OP doesn't even know where the officer was to begin with.

[cepe10]

Originally Posted by Zigner

Cepe -
How do you propse she argue that the officer wasn't able to see the entire stopping area?
OP doesn't even know where the officer was to begin with.

I think I would print out a aerial photo of the intersection in question. for example:
[url]http://www.terraserver.microsoft.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=10&Z=10&X=2488&Y=24900&W=1&qs=%7csalem%7cor%7c[/url]

The LEO has already admitted being parked on the street. (although rather vaguely...if you looked left or right, he doesn't seem to know himself) discovery of the notes would also be of order.

I would on cross get him to indentify exactly where he was positioned.
Unless he was parked right at the intesection, due to normally designed ~75 foot clear sight triangles at intersections, he will not have clear sight to the entire area behind the stop sign.

[url]http://www.terraserver.microsoft.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=10&Z=10&X=2488&Y=24900&W=1&qs=%7csalem%7cor%7c[/url]

I would also have the legal "stopping area" marked on the map. Then by drawing a line between where he indicated and the stopping area, I would ask him "isn't it true that by your own admission along with the USGS aerial photography that you did not have a clear sight to the entire area which is legal to make the stop?

In this case I think he was fudging it and will get himself in trouble on the stand.

[Zigner]

Originally Posted by cepe10

I think I would print out a aerial photo of the intersection in question. for example:
[url]http://www.terraserver.microsoft.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=10&Z=10&X=2488&Y=24900&W=1&qs=%7csalem%7cor%7c[/url]

The LEO has already admitted being parked on the street. (although rather vaguely...if you looked left or right, he doesn't seem to know himself) discovery of the notes would also be of order.

I would on cross get him to indentify exactly where he was positioned.
Unless he was parked right at the intesection, due to normally designed ~75 foot clear sight triangles at intersections, he will not have clear sight to the entire area behind the stop sign.

[url]http://www.terraserver.microsoft.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=10&Z=10&X=2488&Y=24900&W=1&qs=%7csalem%7cor%7c[/url]

I would also have the legal "stopping area" marked on the map. Then by drawing a line between where he indicated and the stopping area, I would ask him "isn't it true that by your own admission along with the USGS aerial photography that you did not have a clear sight to the entire area which is legal to make the stop?

In this case I think he was fudging it and will get himself in trouble on the stand.

But this falls apart when the officer points out precisely where he was on the map and it is in perfect view of the area in question. So then our OP would have helped to prove the case AGAINST her.
Cepe - what makes you think the cop wsa fudging. OP NEVER said that the cop seemed unsure about where he was. Rather, he was saying that it was obvious the OP didn't look right and left at the intersection or she would have seen him.

OP - Cepe has a known bias against police officers. Please be careful.

[cepe10]

Originally Posted by Zigner

But this falls apart when the officer points out precisely where he was on the map and it is in perfect view of the area in question. So then our OP would have helped to prove the case AGAINST her.
Cepe - what makes you think the cop wsa fudging. OP NEVER said that the cop seemed unsure about where he was. Rather, he was saying that it was obvious the OP didn't look right and left at the intersection or she would have seen him.

OP - Cepe has a known bias against police officers. Please be careful.

Like always you have no advice just the nit picking

op you have nothing to worry about - go to a court session beforehand and you'll see how bogus zigner's warning is when you are prepared.

[LSCAP]

If you take the pictures from the stop sign it should show that the roadway was obstructed by bushes. Which would justify your creeping forward.

No matter where the officer was.

If the bush doesn't obstruct your view, you are guilty.

[AngelaTing]

[url]http://www.state.nj.us/mvc/pdf/Licenses/Driver%20Manual/Chapter_4.pdf[/url]

scroll down to page 32 and read the blind intersection section or page 4 of 17

"Blind Intersection
"buildings, parked cars, or bushes can obstruct motorists' line of sight. On rural roadways, trees or crops may obstruct motorists' line of sight. Slow down or stop completely to make sure there is no cross traffic before proceeding."


It states Slow Down ... (OR) stop completely.... Doesn't say what kind of intersection whether its a stop sign intersection or merging or traffic light or yeilding intersection.. but i'm sure it applies to all right? Even if he wrote me down for not stopping, something was obstructing my view therefore i win right?!?!?1

[LSCAP]

That section refers to any and all blind intersections, with or without a stop sign.
In other words, no sign, slow or stop anyway.

[AngelaTing]

aerial view
the intersection is to the right of the star
[url]http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?formtype=address&addtohistory=&address=%5b40%2d99%5d%20Hamilton%20Blvd&city=Piscataway&state =NJ&zipcode=08854&country=US&location=EqGNB0CH%2bm7UC7mY50AMvHfKsGe5Z8hp%2foxhABvUgw128Wsd8bjAVGQNbN Roh2qlc1saTgo5m%2fivAgprF%2f3FK5Sn5t3Oml8yGn4nfnOrfzmU3I2WZjZXhXCcAX0PvNOrKKuKUtmC5bmClXT4bz1WGKk371 xeZqrT&ambiguity=1[/url]

i don't think it will help though.. i think i shoudl take some photos of the intersection

[AngelaTing]

so are u saying i dont' have to stop at stop signs if the view is obstructing my view?... i just need to slow down? wouldn't that be considered rolling past a stop sign?

[LSCAP]

I am saying just the opposite.

If there is not a stop sign, and your view is blocked, it is your responsibility to slow or if necessary stop to insure safe further movement.

At a stop sign, you stop. Then:

After a safe stop, if your view is blocked, it is proper to do as you said, creep forward, then go.

Regardless of where the officer was, your claim is that you couldn't see,( picture of large bush) therefore you had to stop then you had to creep forward until it was safe. Then you drove off.