got ticket for red arrow light violationbut there is no red arrow at the intersection

[PHYSCIS]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA

I did not stop at a regular red light when turning right. i got photographed and also there is a video where it shows that. I did slowed down to 15 mph (that is what the ticket says). Also i did turn on my right blinker and looked left to check for traffic comming the other way(one of the pictures and video show that).

The problem is got a ticket for a violation 21453(c) (Red arrow, driver shall not enter intersection to make indicated movement) So i think i got the ticket for the wrong violation. the ticket is outrageous. >400.

So what should i do?

 

[Kiawah]

Come to a complete stop when there is a red light, and pay the ticket because you got caught.

Rolling thru at 15mph is no where near a complete stop, hard to argue that one for any compassion.

 

[CdwJava]

Get a picture of the signal and show that it has no red arrow anywhere on the cycle ... that should help to show you were cited for the wrong subsection and you ought to prevail unless it is amended prior to trial.

You should have been cited for 21453(a) from the sound of it ... unless, of course, there IS a red arrow somewhere in the cycle.

- Carl

 

[PHYSCIS]

That sounds good. I will let you all know what happens after i try that.
i will try first the trial by declaration and if that does not work i'll get a court date.

Thanks

 

[Jim_bo]

Come to a complete stop when there is a red light, and pay the ticket because you got caught.

Rolling thru at 15mph is no where near a complete stop, hard to argue that one for any compassion.

Now THAT is helpful!!!!!

 

[CdwJava]

Well, he DID blow the light by his own admission. His only potential saving grace here is that it appears they cited the wrong subsection for some odd reason.

- Carl

 

[Jim_bo]

Well, he DID blow the light by his own admission. His only potential saving grace here is that it appears they cited the wrong subsection for some odd reason.

- Carl

I would agree with you if this were the "Free Advice Lecture Form".... but it's not.

Don't tell me you are becoming like Zigner.

 

[Zigner]

I would agree with you if this were the "Free Advice Lecture Form".... but it's not.

Don't tell me you are becoming like Zigner.

Jim - I happen to agree that this guy can beat THIS charge (not that it won't be amended). HOWEVER, the simple fact of the matter is that this guy DID blow the light. Are you trying to say otherwise?

 

[CdwJava]

I would agree with you if this were the "Free Advice Lecture Form".... but it's not.

Lectures are also free ... both come at the same low price.

- Carl

 

[Jim_bo]

Lectures are also free ... both come at the same low price.

- Carl

That I agree with. But it is not in keeping with the intent of this forum. Let someone post here about a domestic violence case or a tax issue.... there will quickly be a half dozen people telling him that he posted in the wrong forum and that is not the intent of this forum. I guess that rule only applies for OPs and not the lecturing responders.

 

[Jim_bo]

Jim - I happen to agree that this guy can beat THIS charge (not that it won't be amended). HOWEVER, the simple fact of the matter is that this guy DID blow the light. Are you trying to say otherwise?

Nope, I am not saying otherwise. My response is consistent with two common themes in my posts:

1. This forum is not the "lecture" forum or the "your guilty" forum. It is intended to be a forum where people can get advice on preparing a possible defense. However, it is frequently abused by many (especially you).

2. The State should be held to a higher standard than the public. The cop screwed up, so this guy will recieve the benefit of the cop's mistake. Good for him. However, it falls far short of evening the score of the THOUSANDS of illegal convictions that the state hands out every year.

 

[Zigner]

Nope, I am not saying otherwise. My response is consistent with two common themes in my posts:

1. This forum is not the "lecture" forum or the "your guilty" forum. It is intended to be a forum where people can get advice on preparing a possible defense. However, it is frequently abused by many (especially you).

2. The State should be held to a higher standard than the public. The cop screwed up, so this guy will recieve the benefit of the cop's mistake. Good for him. However, it falls far short of evening the score of the THOUSANDS of illegal convictions that the state hands out every year.

Please post a cite for your statistic




Oh, I'm just joshing...I know you don't have one!

 

[Jim_bo]

First off... you have never cited anything relevant that I have ever seen. All you have ever done is stir controversy and try to tell people how guilty they are.

No statistic is necessary... just a cite from the vehicle code:

40803(b) In any prosecution under this code of a charge involving the
speed of a vehicle, where enforcement involves the use of radar or
other electronic devices which measure the speed of moving objects,
the prosecution shall establish, as part of its prima facie case,
that the evidence or testimony presented is not based upon a
speedtrap as defined in paragraph (2) of subdivision (a) of Section
40802.

In my opinion, this is probably the most powerful, yet most overlooked section of the speed trap laws. Notice it says "ANY PROSECUTION". The State has the burden of proving that a speed trap does not exist before it can prosecute anyone. Pleading guilty and sending in a check for the fine is a prosecution just like loosing in court. However, I have never seen the state take this law seriously even though there are multiple cases that state clearly that it IS the state's burden... even if the defendant doesn't ask for it.

So, every single prosecution of an infraction involving speed where the prosecution did not specifically PROVE that a speed trap did not exist is an illegal prosecution. I believe that rates in the thousands.

To make things worse, I spoke to a local city councilman the other day who said new speed surveys had been released in the town I live in. I got him to confess that most of the speed limits in town are unjustified. Even though all the speeding tickets written will be illegal, he intends to overlook that fact because it is so expensive to buy new signs for the appropriate speed limits.

Anyone who says tickets aren't a revenue generating business for the state is just blind.

 

[I_Got_Banned]

LOL @ Kiawah... Got busted by the post police!!!

First off... you have never cited anything relevant that I have ever seen. All you have ever done is stir controversy and try to tell people how guilty they are.

No statistic is necessary... just a cite from the vehicle code:

40803(b) In any prosecution under this code of a charge involving the
speed of a vehicle, where enforcement involves the use of radar or
other electronic devices which measure the speed of moving objects,
the prosecution shall establish, as part of its prima facie case,
that the evidence or testimony presented is not based upon a
speedtrap as defined in paragraph (2) of subdivision (a) of Section
40802.

In my opinion, this is probably the most powerful, yet most overlooked section of the speed trap laws. Notice it says "ANY PROSECUTION". The State has the burden of proving that a speed trap does not exist before it can prosecute anyone. Pleading guilty and sending in a check for the fine is a prosecution just like loosing in court. However, I have never seen the state take this law seriously even though there are multiple cases that state clearly that it IS the state's burden... even if the defendant doesn't ask for it.

So, every single prosecution of an infraction involving speed where the prosecution did not specifically PROVE that a speed trap did not exist is an illegal prosecution. I believe that rates in the thousands.

To make things worse, I spoke to a local city councilman the other day who said new speed surveys had been released in the town I live in. I got him to confess that most of the speed limits in town are unjustified. Even though all the speeding tickets written will be illegal, he intends to overlook that fact because it is so expensive to buy new signs for the appropriate speed limits.

Anyone who says tickets aren't a revenue generating business for the state is just blind.

Jim, if anyone had posted what I quoted up here, this would be YOUR response:

What in God's name does the speed trap law have to do with bogus red light violation?

How does that benefit our OP in this thread?


If you can't post something helpful then GO AWAY!

Also, it seems like you have to throw that into every thread that you post in... There's more to the vehicle code than just the speed trap law... Spice it up a little...

 

[Jim_bo]

LOL @ Kiawah... Got busted by the post police!!!



Jim, if anyone had posted what I quoted up here, this would be YOUR response:



Also, it seems like you have to throw that into every thread that you post in... There's more to the vehicle code than just the speed trap law... Spice it up a little...

Good point.... got sidetracked. My appologies to the OP for hijacking the thread.