got ticket, then plea bargain, then screwed up..

[ticketvictim]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? NJ

Hi Guys,

I cant complain that I did not get the plea bargain, but then I screwed up. Well, my story is this....About 2 months ago I got 2 tickets in Jersey City, NJ in an incident a) for crossing on red light b) unable to produce insurance card. (I did cross on red light but it was because of the confusion caused by switching of a left turn light to green and since the car on my left moved ahead to take the left turn, I too mistakenly moved ahead only to realize that my light was still red. Cop behind me pulled me over. Insurance card I had in the car had expired a month ago, even though my car was insured at the time, i did not have the most updated insurance card. I requested cop to verify with the insurance company that I had insurance, but she went ahead and gave me the ticket anyway. So two tickets.) Now I have never gotten a ticket before in my life, and have a clean driving record with no points, so I did not know how it worked.

I went to the court on Summit Ave in Jersey City, NJ on the date on the ticket and prosecutor said that he'd dismiss the insurance proof ticket, and reduce my red light (which is 2 points in NJ) to unsafe driving, 0 points, and a total fine of $389. When my name was called in front of the judge, judge asked me why and how I thought I was driving unsafe. I got confused - i did not know that i will have to explain the events of how I was driving unsafe and plead guilty in that manner. So I asked judge to allow me to consult an attorney before I say anything. Judge said ok, and gave me a court date of 24th Mar (2 days ago). Before leaving I asked judge if the plea that was offered to me is going to hold when I reappear on 24th and she said she could not be sure because the prosecutor is not her usual prosecutor. I left.

Fast forward to Mar 24th. I go back to the court. It is a different prosecutor. He looks at my tickets quickly and says that I have got 2 tickets (he includes the insurance ticket that I thought was dismissed), refers to notes on the back of the ticket in a glance, and says - "do you want to take unsafe" and literally thats it. Nothing more. I don't know what I was thinking and I know I screwed up but I said - insurance one was dismissed last time I was here; can you give me something lower than unsafe because you know this ticket is a misunderstanding, i am not sure how i am going to say i was driving unsafe. And that's it - he just walked off saying - alright just have a seat and plead not guilty. He looked a little irritated. I knew I had screwed up..
Judge calls my name, I go to the bench. Judge explains what tickets I have got. I ask if the prosecutor can please offer me a plea that I had got last time around. Prosecutor is really irritated now and says to judge that he offered me an unsafe plea and i told him how i thought i was not guilty. So I say to the judge again - can the prosecutor please offer me the plea and if he does so i will accept it. I think by this time prosecutor was irritated so he did not even think and repeated the same thing. Judge told me that prosecutor is not giving me a plea bargain, that I will have to plead not guilty, and gave me a court date of Apr 7th (pretrial or trial I am not sure). And then I left, disappointed.

So, as you can see, I screwed up - i was offered the plea I wanted, but I did not know how to handle myself in that situation, dont know what i was thinking and messed up. Now this case goes to trial, and if I want any mental peace I think I will have to hire a lawyer for 500 bucks, and the best any lawyer can do is to still get me the same plea that was offered to me in the very beginning. So I know I messed up, I just want to know if I somehow can still get the plea from prosecutor or something. What happens when I go to court on Apr 7th - can I ask them for plea again even if they have called the cop to testify? what is the worst case/best case scenario for me from this point on.

I will appreciate any suggestions or points of view..What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

 

[FlyingRon]

Judges get real pissed if they give you continuance to obtain counsel and you don't bother to do so. That was your second mistake.

If you'd have bothered to consult with a lawyer as you told the judge you would he would have told you the answer to the question was just what you said to us here:

Judge: How were you driving that was unsafe?
You: Your honor, I was stopped at the light and I saw the car to my left with the left turn start to go and I was careless and started into the intersection at the same time even though I still had a red light.

Or are you so deranged to think that running a red light isn't unsafe?

 

[ticketvictim]

no i understand it is unsafe and I know that I deserved the ticket. It is simply that I have never been to a courthouse before (i am a 30 yr old european who has been in US for 10 yrs), dont know the court culture (I am a teacher) I did not know if I was pleading guilty to something that may come back to haunt me. At that point, I simply thought that when he prosecutor gave me the plea, he is simply asking me to pay $389 dollars without me confessing to have committed any traffic violation. Clearly it was not that - i was confessing to driving unsafe, which now i understand is not a big deal, but if you dont know what you are confessing to, suddenly put on the spot about it, and you are not accustomed to the culture, it can be perplexing.
As I said, i did mess up. Now, what can i do to fix it. how can I get a plea or something without getting any more mentally involved in this (i got to be honest, i dread them coz i know its not for the simple minded. as i said no offences in the last 10 yrs of driving).

 

[j991]

Split the tickets, and think of them as two seperate cases. When you talk to the prosecutor, ask him to accept a plea on the red light to unsafe driving. Let them know that you are going to plead not guilty to the insurance because the vehicle was insured and you have the proof. The prosecutor may drop the ticket anyway, but if it goes before the judge you only need explain that the vehicle was insured, but you didn't have the current card.

 

[I_Got_Banned]

They may or may not offer you the same plea again... Only the prosecutor would know the answer to that question and even then, if you happen to speak to one now, he might not be the one prosecuting your case come trial date.

Your best bet, and if this is causing you this much mental anguish, is to hire an attorney to handle this matter for you. If you choose one who is in the area of the court where you are required to appear, he may be familiar with most prosecutors in that court... even if that is not the case then he's more familiar than you are with court procedures.

If anything at all, consult with an attorney so that you can familiarize yourself with what to expect on April 7th.

 

[ticketvictim]

Thanks guys. So, how do i get to talk to the prosecutor before trial; j991 you suggest that i may get an opportunity to talk with the prosecutor before trial even though Apr7th is my trial date when the prosecutor may have called the police officer for testimony. If so, do i need to do anything to get that opportunity to talk with the prosecutor.
I_Got_banned also seems to suggest that i may have an opportunity to talk with prosecutor days before the trial (even though he may not be the same as the one who will eventually come to trial). I mean can i just walk into courthouse any given day and talk with the prosecutor about my case?
Any idea about approx rate of hiring a lawyer to handle this?


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They may or may not offer you the same plea again... Only the prosecutor would know the answer to that question and even then, if you happen to speak to one now, he might not be the one prosecuting your case come trial date.

Your best bet, and if this is causing you this much mental anguish, is to hire an attorney to handle this matter for you. If you choose one who is in the area of the court where you are
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[I_Got_Banned]

You misunderstood my post. So let me rephrase:
Even if you got to talk to the prosecutor before your trial, it might not be the same one who might appear on that date. Whereas an attorney might have a better chance of getting a straight answer from one.
As far as what an attorney might charge, it varies so you might wanna pick up the phone and ask around. Even if you don't end up hiring one, you might get an idea on how your particular citation is typically handled.