Help with speeding ticket

[qurice]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? TX

On the way home from the coast, I received a speeding from a TX State Trooper. Driving north on I-37 in Atascosa county, around midnight.

I was in the passing lane when I first saw the lights, I looked down and I was going about 70, so I figured he was just wanting to pass, so I moved over. When he got behind me, I knew he was pulling me over. He approached the vehicle and immediately asked me for license, and insurance and to step out of my vehicle and said he was pulling me over for speeding. Fair enough, I was going 70 in a 65. Normally it's 70, but 65 at night.

Once I got out of the car he started to ask a bunch of questions. Like where we stayed, and for how long, who else was there, were am I going now, what is my occupation etc.

He gave me the citation and a pamplet on how to request defensive driving to dismiss. I was surprised when he told me he I was going 79mph.

Info from the ticket:

Texas Department of Public Safety
July 30, 2008 12:03A

(My info)

Make: TOYT
Year: 2005
Model: SXB
Color: RED
Type: SUV

Other Conditions: MR FA OD NB IL (I do not know what these codes mean)

Location: IH0037
Mile post: 114

Alleged: 79
Speed limit: 65
Accident: Unchecked
RAD CAL: 12:04A
Passengers: Nothing marked (Wife and 2 yr old were in the car)
Traffic: Light
Weather: Clear, cloudy

Violations:
Speeding 10% above posted limit

He also listed warnings for a plate cover on the front lic plate (it has already been removed) and for having expired registration sticker on the windshield. My wife pulled the new one out of the glove box and showed him it was current, and apologized for not changing it out when she got it.

Officer's info, Region 3, District B, Area 4 and court info...

----

There is no way I was going 79, but have no way to prove otherwise. What I'm confused about are the two times that appear on the ticket. The time on top shows 12:03A, but the time the officer has listed for the radar calibration is at 12:04A - What does the time on top indicate? The time of the stop? The time he printed the ticket? (Nothing is handwritten, he printed the ticket from a console in his vehicle) I'm just curious is how he could calibrate the radar to clock me AFTER he had already stopped me. Maybe I'm missing something. Any ideas?

Don't know if it's relevant or not, but another trooper stopped an 18 wheeler on the other side of the highway where we were stopped, and the officer that stopped me, immediately pulled over someone else about half a mile in front of us before we even got back on the road.

Thanks!

 

[qurice]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? TX

There is no way I was going 79, but have no way to prove otherwise. What I'm confused about are the two times that appear on the ticket. The time on top shows 12:03A, but the time the officer has listed for the radar calibration is at 12:04A - What does the time on top indicate? The time of the stop? The time he printed the ticket? (Nothing is handwritten, he printed the ticket from a console in his vehicle) I'm just curious is how he could calibrate the radar to clock me AFTER he had already stopped me. Maybe I'm missing something. Any ideas?

Thanks!

Anyone? Thank you.

 

[Zigner]

You had no idea how fast you were going UNTIL someone came up behind you. There is no way you can say for sure that you weren't going 79.

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? TX

On the way home from the coast, I received a speeding from a TX State Trooper. Driving north on I-37 in Atascosa county, around midnight.

I was in the passing lane when I first saw the lights, I looked down and I was going about 70, so I figured he was just wanting to pass, so I moved over. When he got behind me, I knew he was pulling me over. He approached the vehicle and immediately asked me for license, and insurance and to step out of my vehicle and said he was pulling me over for speeding. Fair enough, I was going 70 in a 65. Normally it's 70, but 65 at night.

Once I got out of the car he started to ask a bunch of questions. Like where we stayed, and for how long, who else was there, were am I going now, what is my occupation etc.

He gave me the citation and a pamplet on how to request defensive driving to dismiss. I was surprised when he told me he I was going 79mph.

Info from the ticket:

Texas Department of Public Safety
July 30, 2008 12:03A

(My info)

Make: TOYT
Year: 2005
Model: SXB
Color: RED
Type: SUV

Other Conditions: MR FA OD NB IL (I do not know what these codes mean)

Location: IH0037
Mile post: 114

Alleged: 79
Speed limit: 65
Accident: Unchecked
RAD CAL: 12:04A
Passengers: Nothing marked (Wife and 2 yr old were in the car)
Traffic: Light
Weather: Clear, cloudy

Violations:
Speeding 10% above posted limit

He also listed warnings for a plate cover on the front lic plate (it has already been removed) and for having expired registration sticker on the windshield. My wife pulled the new one out of the glove box and showed him it was current, and apologized for not changing it out when she got it.

Officer's info, Region 3, District B, Area 4 and court info...

----

There is no way I was going 79, but have no way to prove otherwise. What I'm confused about are the two times that appear on the ticket. The time on top shows 12:03A, but the time the officer has listed for the radar calibration is at 12:04A - What does the time on top indicate? The time of the stop? The time he printed the ticket? (Nothing is handwritten, he printed the ticket from a console in his vehicle) I'm just curious is how he could calibrate the radar to clock me AFTER he had already stopped me. Maybe I'm missing something. Any ideas?

Don't know if it's relevant or not, but another trooper stopped an 18 wheeler on the other side of the highway where we were stopped, and the officer that stopped me, immediately pulled over someone else about half a mile in front of us before we even got back on the road.

Thanks!

 

[qurice]

You are correct on that, I don't know for sure.

I do know that going and maintaining that speed in my car is very hard to do. It's pretty underpowered and with 2 adults (my wife and I weigh 250 each), one child all his gear (pack and play, stoller), and loaded up with stuff from a 3 day stay at the beach, I'd have to push the car pretty hard. Engine noise is also extremely loud at that speed (over 4k rpms).

I do know that I was over 65, but find it highly unlikely that I was that much over. I know it's no excuse, but can anyone tell me what those timestamps mean?

 

[TXPI]

Your problem is that it is your word against his and he is a sworn law enforcement officer known by the court and trained to lie, um, I mean how to testify. He will show up for JP court and you will lose, guaranteed. That said, you can appeal and there is a high likelihood that he will not show up (as department policy only requires him to appear at the first trial). This will be in a different court where he may be unknown, if he does appear. This is the ploy used by the "billboard attorneys" who guarantee beating tickets. The downside to appeals is that you have to post (at least) a $300 bond (the minimum set by the TX Code of Criminal Procedure, and this may have been changed since my last reading a couple of years ago). Some courts also try to dissuade appeals by only allowing a bond, not cash, etc. Call a bail bondsman and you will literally be laughed at but being a TX resident you can, however, post a personal bond (the scope of how is beyond this reply).

If you haven't taken defensive driving recently (within the last 3 years, if I recall), you can take the course and have the ticket dismissed for a relatively small fee. This also has the added benefit of a 10% reduction in liability insurance rates (at least by reputable insurance companies). You can take the course online. It is also offered at many restaurants as well as other places.

A third choice is to plead "no lo contendre" (no contest) and request "deferred adjudication" (probation). After the probationary period, usually 90 days but can be almost anything the court desires, the ticket will be dismissed--provided you don't get any more tickets in that jurisdiction during the period. The benefit here is that the ticket will not appear on your record but the downside is you will have to pay fees that amount to the same as the ticket.

 

[Zigner]

Your problem is that it is your word against his and he is a sworn law enforcement officer known by the court and trained to lie, um, I mean how to testify.

Actually, the officer is trained to testify truthfully. Furthermore, he has no reason to lie.

 

[qurice]

If you haven't taken defensive driving recently (within the last 3 years, if I recall), you can take the course and have the ticket dismissed for a relatively small fee. This also has the added benefit of a 10% reduction in liability insurance rates (at least by reputable insurance companies). You can take the course online. It is also offered at many restaurants as well as other places.

It's 12 months. I got a speeding ticket in Feb.(in my wife's fun to drive turbo-charged car) and did the course for dismissal and am currently getting the discount. So I can't do it again here.

A third choice is to plead "no lo contendre" (no contest) and request "deferred adjudication" (probation). After the probationary period, usually 90 days but can be almost anything the court desires, the ticket will be dismissed--provided you don't get any more tickets in that jurisdiction during the period. The benefit here is that the ticket will not appear on your record but the downside is you will have to pay fees that amount to the same as the ticket.

While the ticket is expensive, I just don't want it on my record. I can pretty much guarantee I won't be traveling through that jurisdiction again until next summer, providing I don't get a ticket while there for my court date. I'll check into that, thanks.

 

[TXPI]

Actually, the officer is trained to testify truthfully. Furthermore, he has no reason to lie.

In my training and experience (I am a licensed private investigator in Texas with a BA in Criminal Justice-Law Enforcement and a minor in pre-law, and nearly 50 years driving experience) I have found law enforcement officers lie more often than not. (Attempting to understand this phenomena was my motivation for getting my degree at an age older than most of my professors; unfortunately it has only made me more cynical.) In my CJ classes, many of the lessons on how things are "supposed" to be done were followed by a wink, wink, or were "war stories" about multitudes of unethical/unscrupulous cops. I have had my rights violated more times than I can count, several times the victim of police perjury, been solicited for bribes, and had a cop sell a pawn shop my gun he'd confiscated from the 10-year-old who'd burglarized it from my home. About a year ago my 26-year-old son was stopped for exceeding the speed limit by four miles an hour in my car. The trooper, saying my son was acting nervously (my son explained that he has Tourette's Syndrome), told my son he would only issue a warning if he consented to a search of the vehicle (this is illegal coercion), which my son did. The trooper trashed my car, leaving everything askew and broke a pair of my glasses in the glove box. I called the troop the next day to complain. His supervisor called me back and said he'd reviewed the dash-cam video and that the trooper made no such offer but said I could come in and review it if I desired. I guess he thought I'd take his word because when I reviewed the tape the statement was as plain as day. When he asked if I'd like to make an official complaint and I said yes he became highly incensed, his face turning bright red. There are many reasons for cops to lie--some just do it because they are pathological liars. I could fill up the forum's hard drive with such stories.

Qurice,

The third degree the cop gave you is termed a "professional disposition." It's basically a Pavlovian response he's developed and employs at every traffic stop. His stop was most likely a pretext to check you for drugs, DUI, etc. Your speed gave him probable cause for the stop. Had your driving record been clean you would have most likely received just a warning. This seems unfair but that's how they work, and perfectly legal.

The fellow trooper in the opposing lane was his tag-team partner. You can bet that if you see one trooper on the highway that there is another close by; if not a trooper there will be a sheriff or constable nearby. It's for officer safety. It's certainly not unusual for a cop to stop someone else immediately. Heck, I was once a passenger in a car that was stopped along with two others at the same time. While they were all traveling the same direction (and opposite that of the cop), they were all separated by hundreds of yards with several cars in between. The cop led all three to the JP's office and said he'd clocked all of them on radar.

You should always take deferred adjudication if you can't take defensive driving as it doesn't go on your record. Technically though, if you get a ticket in another jurisdiction it is a violation of your probation but at this day and time there is no way for the other jurisdiction to find out unless you volunteer the information.

Your driving should always be more cautious the first week or two of the month. Quotas are illegal but police agencies and governmental bodies always come up with other terms like "performance expectations" and such. Once cops meet their quota--I mean, performance expectation--they tend to slack off a bit. A friend of mine put a quick end to such a policy in his department by radioing that he'd made his first of three required stops for the day.

If you feel you have been mistreated by a cop you should file a formal complaint. These go into their permanent record and follow them through their career. Under no circumstances should you lie on a complaint as you can and may very likely be sued for slander. Remember, most cops are wired for sound these days, and many have dash-cams.

 

[qurice]

Qurice,
The third degree the cop gave you is termed a "professional disposition." It's basically a Pavlovian response he's developed and employs at every traffic stop. His stop was most likely a pretext to check you for drugs, DUI, etc. Your speed gave him probable cause for the stop. Had your driving record been clean you would have most likely received just a warning. This seems unfair but that's how they work, and perfectly legal.
...
If you feel you have been mistreated by a cop you should file a formal complaint. These go into their permanent record and follow them through their career. Under no circumstances should you lie on a complaint as you can and may very likely be sued for slander. Remember, most cops are wired for sound these days, and many have dash-cams.

That makes sense. He had me go to the back of my car (between mine and his) when he questioned me probably to get me on dash cam. It was late, tired, VERY sunburned and he probably thought I was drunk. I know he's doing his job, and I do hold a lot of respect of law enforcement.

I mostly upset that all the commotion woke up my 2 year old (and the flashlight in his face didn't help either), who screamed the entire time and continued to do so until for another 20 minutes after we got back on the road. Upsetting yes; worth causing more trouble, not really.

 

[qurice]

Update

I went to court to ask about deferred adjudication. The clerk I spoke with could not tell me what the additional fee amounts were, and went over options to contest. With all my questions, she suggested I just talk to the judge myself, but she was not there.

She offered me a "pre-trial hearing" with the judge and stated the judge could lower the fine, dismiss it all together, or set the terms for deferred adjudication right then and there. It was described to me as a "one-on-one" session. The clerk told me I had to plead guilty to schedule this meeting, but it would be changed to nolo contende if the judge OKed the deferred adjudication. Does that sound correct? Either way I'm supposed to have my hearing week after next.

I'm not sure what to expect, or what I should bring etc.

Also, I've seen chips for vehicles that parents use to spy on their kid's driving habits. Do the logs from those devices hold up in court?

Thanks again

 

[qurice]

Update

I had my pre-trial hearing with the Judge today.

I explained to her that yes, I was speeding, but didn't believe I was going as fast as was stated on the ticket. I told her I was not eligible to do defensive driving, and asked about other options.

She told me she appreciated my honesty, and said she was going to allow me to take defensive driving again for dismissal even though I've already done it earlier this year.

Happy with the outcome. Thanks to all for the assistance