How do I make sure my evidence will be usable?

[cosmoyogiman]

Hi from California. I have a TBWD coming up and want to make sure my sole piece of evidence is officially usable. I am charged with failure to stop at a red arrow (right turn), but in fact the red light is solid, not an arrow. My evidence is a poor color print of a google map photo of the light. Is there a way to get official verification from the public works department from the city of the alledged violation? I already got verbal verification from there.

Thanks for any advice:

[I_Got_Banned]

Originally Posted by cosmoyogiman

Is there a way to get official verification from the public works department from the city of the alledged violation?

You mean to get official confirmation the no arrow exists on the turn light; and instead, that it is a solid red/yellow/green?

Yes, it is possible if they are willing to provide that and be that specific about it. If they do refuse to provide you with such specific validation, just ask them for the engineering report for the traffic light at that intersection which will in fact detail the specifics you are looking for.

Which CVC section were you charged with violating?

ETA: Whatever copy of whichever form the provide you with, request that the person issuing it certify that it is a true copy of the original.

[cosmoyogiman]

Thanks. vc 21453(c) is what I am charged with.

[CdwJava]

The problem with the Google image is that there is no way to verify as to what date that image was taken. Perhaps they added an arrow since then?

The key to evidence is verification. Now, if YOU go and take a picture and submit that, YOU can assert that "On XX/XX/2009 at YY:ZZ AM/PM I took the enclosed photo showing that ..." If you take it off of Google you have no idea when it was taken, by whom, or that it is for sure the light at the intersection. The judge can easily discount such a photo.

Here is the section for which you were cited:

(c) A driver facing a steady red arrow signal shall not enter the
intersection to make the movement indicated by the arrow and, unless
entering the intersection to make a movement permitted by another
signal, shall stop at a clearly marked limit line, but if none,
before entering the crosswalk on the near side of the intersection,
or if none, then before entering the intersection, and shall remain
stopped until an indication permitting movement is shown.

Is there a red arrow attached to a different device? Perhaps a sign saying, "No turn on red"?

- Carl

[FlyingRon]

A "no turn on red" sign would not be a violation of (c)

[CdwJava]

Originally Posted by FlyingRon

A "no turn on red" sign would not be a violation of (c)

I wouldn't think so and I would cite for violating the traffic control device (the sign), but as pointed out on another thread the argument can be made. The section says that the vehicle "shall remain stopped until an indication permitting movement is shown." Well, the green light would be that indication.

I am trying to understand why the (c) subsection citation and there are only a couple of circumstances in which that might make sense - even if incorrectly cited - and one would be if there was a sign.

- Carl