Huge base fine for violation ORS 811.265 (w/ ORS 811.100) in Oregon?!

[Nogibak]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Oregon.

Hi everyone. I posted this on another forum, but I thought I'd post it here for more opinions.

My wife recently got her first traffic citation ever. There were two violations that she received all written in one ticket. One was ORS 811.100 VBR, which was a speeding violation. Her alleged speed of 71 in a 55 mph zone. Okay, that seems like it was her fault for not carefully looking at the posted speed limit.

However, the second violation was ORS 811.265, in which it was described as "FTO TCD Stop Sign." Apparently, she did not stop at a stop sign successfully. She was somehow under the impression that she did not come to a full stop or didn't stop for the full time amount. She says the cars in front of her zoomed on by as well (in which they did not stop either). Out of all those cars, perhaps she was the remaining leftover car and as a result, the officer proceeded to track her down first.

Anyhow, faults aside, the thing that we find strange are the fine amounts themselves. The first speeding ticket fine (ORS 811.100) has a base fine of $190. That value seems normal and like it is. But, the TCD violation fine (ORS 811.265) has a base fine of $400! Thus, our total is $590. ($190 + $400). This is my wife's FIRST traffic citation in a motor vehicle. So, what gives?

Is this TCD violation base fine normal or high? I've read somewhere from other experiences that the base fine for this type of violation usually ranges from $200-300. So it seems our amount was exceptionally high for a first time citation. It just seems this whole ordeal frustrates my family and I very much as there is some confusion onto how much base fine is normal.

Thank you.

 

[HighwayMan]

She was under the impression that she did not stop? Well, that's pretty clear cut. There is no "time amount". You have to stop, period. Then proceed when safe to do so. She acknowledges that she did not stop.

Where are you getting your fine information from? If that information is on the tickets then it is what it is and there is nothing to argue.

Fines for that type of violations can vary greatly from state to state. Not sure what you're looking for as far as the fines go.

 

[Nogibak]

I guess what I meant is that she did not come to a full stop. No lies there. A quick search in google pulled up this document from the Oregon DMV: http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/DMV/docs/traffic_newsletter/ATT1.pdf in which the base fine (effective of 2006, so it may not have been updated) is noted to be $242. But we were just curious to see if anyone knew if $400 for our type of violation in our state was normal or not.

 

[HighwayMan]

Well, again, where are you getting that number from??????????

 

[Nogibak]

http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/DMV/docs/traffic_newsletter/ATT1.pdf

The PDF (Adobe Reader) link above. It is from the Oregon DMV titled "Oregon Vehicle Base Fine Schedule (MBFS-06)-effective 1/1/2006." I just quickly searched my wife's violation code in google, and it was one of the few links that came up with. It has a column that reads:

"Fail to obey traffic control device 811.265 B Viol 242"

The numeric value of 242 should be the dollar amount in base fine. It just seems like $242 or so was the expected amount range I was anticipating, as opposed to $400.

 

[HighwayMan]

My question is where did you get $400 from?

 

[Nogibak]

Hmm? What do you mean?

Do you mean why my wife's ticket says $400 for her second fine, or the idea of where we were thinking the range of $400 was not normal?

 

[HighwayMan]

Hello? I don't know why you don't understand the question.

You said you looked up the fine online and it says $242 on the fine schedule. You are then mentioning that it's really $400 and asking is that normal.

I am asking you where do you see that the fine is $400? I think it's a straight forward question.

 

[Nogibak]

Sorry, but I am not quite sure why you aren't understanding me either. I'll try to explain it a little bit better.

I am not saying that $400 is normal. I am saying that my wife was ticketed $400 base fine for her second violation. In her citation ticket, the 1st offense was 811.100 at a base fine of $190. The second offense is listed as 811.265 with a base fine of $400.

My question is then: is this $400 base fine a normal amount? To us, it seems excessively high. For example, we compared this amount to the base fine schedule online from our state's DMV that effectively shows $242 as the expected value range for our 811.265 violation.

Therefore, I am trying to ask if anyone else knows or believes what amount we received ($400) also seems high or not.

I mentioned earlier in my original thread that my family and I anticipated and estimated a "normal fine amount" to be around $200-300 just from asking others and their opinions. The DMV schedule sort of confirmed our suspicion. So, we figure we'd ask here on this forum to see if any one else thinks what we received was normal or not.

My apologies again, I hope this clears up any more confusion.

 

[I_Got_Banned]

My wife recently got her first traffic citation ever.

Congratulations!

As for your question about the fine amounts... I'm not sure why you're expecting a fine schedule from 2006 to apply in 2009!!!

Here is the 2009 Oregon Vehicle Base Fine Schedule: http://www.pocketpress.com/Samples/ORBail.pdf

If you search the document for 811.265 then you'll see that it is referred to as a "B" violation for which the base fine is $287. However, and this is only a guess... But I am assuming that this particular violation occurred in what is referred to in that schedule as a TSZ Zone (defined as: Traffic Special Zone-Consists of highway work zones, school zones with posted school zone signs, or designated safety corridor) which carries a higher base fine.

Now, scroll down to the NOTES section on the last page and you will see a small table to the right side of the page. In that table, a "B" violation that is committed in a TSZ zone carries a BASE FINE OF $400.

TSZ-Traffic Special Zone-Consists of highway work zones, school zones with posted school zone signs, or designated safety corridor

With that question having been settled, let me get a step ahead of you... I know you're going to ask "how come the Stop Sign violation is considered to have occurred in a TSZ zone whereas the speeding violation is not?".....

The answer could be that the officer made a mistake is writing the fine amount on the citation OR, more likely, the speeding violation occcured in a non-TSZ zone whereas the stop sign violation occurred in a TSZ zone.

These zones (TSZ versus non-TSZ) should be listed somewhere in the Oregon statute... or you might be able to get a list of TSZ zones from the court clerk where the citation is being adjudicated....

 

[Nogibak]

Ah, that makes sense. Thank you for the detailed response. It was exactly what we were looking for.

Indeed, the MBFS-06 document was labeled 2006. I was not sure if there was an updated version or not. But, after searching online and changing it to MBFS-09, I believe I found what you were referring to. Yes, this is what I was trying to look for as well.

I do see the TSZ base fine of $400 now. What happened was she was on a small highway stretch that had a maximum speed of 55 mph. She went 71, so no contest there. Her fault. She then came to a non-full stop at the stop sign that connects to another larger highway. After turning, she proceeded onto the new highway.

So, it appears that locale of where she was suppose to stop and turn, was most likely a TSZ zone... hence, the $400 fine! I'm also guessing the first speeding fine was not in a TSZ zone. But, the only way to know is actually call the court and ask them for verification, in which we would do tomorrow when they're open.

It was just very frustrating trying to argue with my family back and forth to determine whether $400 was an insane and ridiculous amount, or whether it was normal. We were desperately trying to search online or elsewhere for some comparison and answers, but it is definitely good now that we found the 2009 version of the base fine schedule.

I myself, have never been ticked with an amount that high. So it was just the mere confusion and numbers that had us trickled and scratching our heads for answers. Posting on these forums and alike was a way to give us further confirmation, advice, or suggestions from other members.

But yep. That confirms what we wanted to hear. However, I would still like to double check the area again where the traffic citation occured. I really want to know if that area was indeed a TSZ zone or not. Just to make sure if the amount was truly justified.

Anyhow, thank you again for the clarification and quick response.

 

[I_Got_Banned]

Ah, that makes sense. Thank you for the detailed response.

Not a problem.

It was just very frustrating trying to argue with my family back and forth

Now go kiss and make up

 

[HighwayMan]

The second offense is listed as 811.265 with a base fine of $400.

When I asked you how you knew the fine was $400 all you had to say was "it was on the ticket", but you went out of your way to ignore the question.

 

[Nogibak]

Sorry, Highway, but I guess I miss understood your original question. I posted in the original topic thread that the second violation was listed at $400, so I figured you were asking something else. I honestly did not think you were asking me a simple thing like that...I was thinking kind of like: "If $400 was not written on the ticket, how else could my wife be fined?" So, my apologies for the misunderstanding as I was not ignoring the statement. That was not my intent. Nevertheless, it is all good now, yes?

Also, I_Got, I just saw the link you posted for the 2009 base fine schedule. Thank you! Do you happen to know where we could find a listing of the areas differentiating between the TSZ vs. non-TSZ zones? I tried searching through Oregon DMV's webpage, but could not find anything relevant.