I was pulled over with two other cars - cop gave us the same tickets

[adike]

Need advice. I was driving in NH with some friends (two other cars) and we were all pulled over on the highway.

Apparently, someone called and reported that we were going fast (called said we were going around 95mph - I don't know how he/she determined that)

So..we were going downhill at around 80 or so when we noticed a police cruiser and a police officer by his car waiting for us. As soon as he noticed us he starts waving to stop the traffic on the highway and shows us to pull over to the side of the highway.

He pulls over four cars - the first car has nothing to do with us and after all four cars stopped - officer waved the first car to go.

Then he goes to my friends in the first car - then to me - and to the third car telling us how someone called and reported us.

Eventually, the cop asks us to come out of our cars and gives all three of us speeding tickets. He says the following "I am not going to give you a 95mph ticket because I didn't see it, but I will give you an 86mph ticket" for $350 each.
"Slow down, have a nice day" - right, very nice birthday present (I had a birthday that day)

Now my questions are: what are the chances that he caught all three cars going at the same speed (86mph)?

What are the chances of us appealing the tickets?

My thoughts are that he didn't catch us on radar because when he noticed us (and we noticed him) - he was standing by his car without a radar gun, already waiting for us. We were not even going that fast at that time (maybe a bit fast when we were reported - but not even close to 95mph)

[I_Got_Banned]

Typically, a speeding citation will also show the method which the officer measured your speed. Does it say anything like Radar, Lidar, Laser... etc?

Also, please provide the statute that you were cited with.

Oh, and Happy Birthday...

[FlyingRon]

Perhaps he had already put it down by the time he saw you. Perhaps he was using VASCAR, we have no idea. All he needs to do is clock one of you if you are all travelling in a pack. It's also possible that another unit measured your speed. If the information is not provided on the ticket, you can most likely discover it.

[LSCAP]

I hate to get involved in this, As they were probably already clocked. and probably 'flying low' But

I was on my way to work. Ahead of me was one of those stationary Radar things to tell you how fast you are going.

I was doing a solid twenty five and the machine said fortysix. (It was very early in the morning) I wondered if it was broken. There were no cars ahead of me so why? the 46.
As I crossed the intersection two cars passed me. the machine still said 46. as they passed the machine it dropped to 25.
For a few, very few, seconds we three were "driving in a pack" with a 16 mph difference.
They probably were clocked earlier.
But some officers seem to feel that if they can get away with it, it's okay to get multiple hits.

[cyjeff]

Originally Posted by LSCAP

I hate to get involved in this, As they were probably already clocked. and probably 'flying low' But

I was on my way to work. Ahead of me was one of those stationary Radar things to tell you how fast you are going.

I was doing a solid twenty five and the machine said fortysix. (It was very early in the morning) I wondered if it was broken. There were no cars ahead of me so why? the 46.
As I crossed the intersection two cars passed me. the machine still said 46. as they passed the machine it dropped to 25.
For a few, very few, seconds we three were "driving in a pack" with a 16 mph difference.
They probably were clocked earlier.
But some officers seem to feel that if they can get away with it, it's okay to get multiple hits.

I assure you that the machine on the side of the road does not compare to the machine held in the officer's hand.

[LSCAP]

And I assure you that Radar clocks the fastest moving object.

Part of the reason officers are taught to estimate speed, is to avoid stopping the first car, if the second car is the one that is speeding.

My main point is that writing a ticket on "packs" can be wrong.

I didn't want to go further, because they probably were clocked earlier, since the officer let the fourth, innocent, car go.

[FlyingRon]

Originally Posted by LSCAP

And I assure you that Radar clocks the fastest moving object.

And I assure you it does not. It's more likely to clock the object providing the strongest return (usually the larger one, but it's more a factor of the geometry of the metal, especially their intersections on the target).

Part of the reason officers are taught to estimate speed, is to avoid stopping the first car, if the second car is the one that is speeding.

That is true.

My main point is that writing a ticket on "packs" can be wrong.

Since these guys were all friends, and most likely "racing" or doing some other shenanigans the visual estimation that they were going the same speed is most likely sufficient.

[Maestro64]

Forget about all the theory of radar operation and what the officer did or did not do. If there is nothing on the ticket about what method that was used, then the only thing you can conclude is he based the ticket on someone filling a report with them. If that is the case it hearsay, and you can get the ticket tossed on the grounds that the officer never made the observation himself, plain and simple.

Fight the ticket and all 3 of you need to show up in court and show that the officer issue you all the same ticket and has no evidence that he actually measured your speed and it was base on hearsay.

[LSCAP]

Flying Ron

This time you are wrong! Radar clocks the fastest moving object whether it's a truck or a motorcycle.
I really thought everyone knew that.
I was just trying to show how a mistake can be made, picking out the wrong person.

And, unless the op admitted he was speeding, such as saying "We weren't doing ninety, we never went over eighty.....Confessed..

I would fight the ticket.

[You Are Guilty]

Originally Posted by LSCAP

Flying Ron

This time you are wrong! Radar clocks the fastest moving object whether it's a truck or a motorcycle.
I really thought everyone knew that.

Obviously not since I believe you're wrong as well My understanding is that while radar CAN pick up the fastest object, that result is greatly affected by the size/shape of the target. So if you have proof that is incorrect, I'd love to see it.

[cyjeff]

Originally Posted by Maestro64

Forget about all the theory of radar operation and what the officer did or did not do. If there is nothing on the ticket about what method that was used, then the only thing you can conclude is he based the ticket on someone filling a report with them. If that is the case it hearsay, and you can get the ticket tossed on the grounds that the officer never made the observation himself, plain and simple.

So you are saying that eye witness testimony of a crime is not valid in a court of law?

[Maestro64]

Originally Posted by cyjeff

So you are saying that eye witness testimony of a crime is not valid in a court of law?

No, I am saying the people who filed the complaint most likely will not show up in court to back up the ticket, therefore anything the officer might say is hearsay and can not be used in court, assuming you object to that fact.

[cyjeff]

Originally Posted by Maestro64

No, I am saying the people who filed the complaint most likely will not show up in court to back up the ticket, therefore anything the officer might say is hearsay and can not be used in court, assuming you object to that fact.

You are missing the possibility that the witness to the crime, if needed, may appear.

Please provide statistical evidence or case law for the phrase "most likely will not show up in court to back up the ticket".

Thanks.

[LSCAP]

Give ma a break. The witnesses better be cops with some kind of gadget, or by pacing, to Prove the offense. Seeing a car pass you is not evidence of speeding.

And as to size of vehicles. I do not believe the cop stands there measuring the difference between motorcycles and eighteen wheelers, and motor scooters, and camping trailers, and big cars and little cars ete etc,
The Police radar is designed to measure speed regardless of size.

And cops are taught to NOT give double or triple headers. The thing is, that most motorists give up. If the op goes to court with three tickets for three people, and the other guys go with him, you stand a chance.
BUT if you admit to one mile over the speed limit, you are guilty.

[adike]

lol, so much technical stuff about the radar.

As someone pointed out above, my main concern is that the cop did not catch us on the radar.

Someone called - said there was a pack of cars driving fast - the cop pulls us over and says "well, i didn't see u going THAT fast, but i'm going to give u THis much".

And again, what is the chance of 3 cars going at exactly the same speed? (we were not going side by side, or even in the same lane).