im back!....court questions

[boogawooga677]

hello to those who remember my query on mistake of fact regarding vehicle speedometers.....since then ive purchased a gps with speed monitoring capabilities...found out the speed difference goes up about 2 miles for every ten past 45....but thats not important...i have court for the speeding ticket on feb 16...think i found the law for subpoena deadlines(6 days before) however im not sure if ill need to subpoena the only info i want....all i want is to make sure that the radar gun was in proper workin order..so i found this law http://srvwww.unicam.state.ne.us/legislature/legaldocs/Statutes/CHAP60/s6006192000.xml ...but i believe the burden of proof still lies on me so do i have to subpoena the calibration records, the training certificate, and both tests prior and post ticket-giving....and how the hell do i subpoena, the clerk told me they didnt know**************HELP! in nebraska

or mike

 

[seniorjudge]

hello to those who remember my query on mistake of fact regarding vehicle speedometers.....since then ive purchased a gps with speed monitoring capabilities...found out the speed difference goes up about 2 miles for every ten past 45....but thats not important...i have court for the speeding ticket on feb 16...think i found the law for subpoena deadlines(6 days before) however im not sure if ill need to subpoena the only info i want....all i want is to make sure that the radar gun was in proper workin order..so i found this law http://srvwww.unicam.state.ne.us/legislature/legaldocs/Statutes/CHAP60/s6006192000.xml ...but i believe the burden of proof still lies on me so do i have to subpoena the calibration records, the training certificate, and both tests prior and post ticket-giving....and how the hell do i subpoena, the clerk told me they didnt know**************HELP! in nebraska

or mike

All of that is irrelevant.

If you were speeding, then you are guilty of speeding.

Period.

Even if.

End of story.

 

[sukharev]

You know, seniorjudge, he did ask a perfect LEGAL question. Whether he is guilty or not, it's up to the court to decide. I would just prefer to help.

OP: to get the records, there are 2 ways. 1 st one is called discovery, and is sent to prosecutor (get the name from the court clerk), second is an official Freedom of Information Act request, and is sent to PD. They are essentially identical in content, so you can just change the first sentence and make sure you CC the court clerk on both. Google up the details, and which items to request. Good luck.

 

[loulblades]

I don't think the info on your speedometer will help you much.

It appears the calibration records in particular are relevant in NE. It says the state has to prove that the unit was in proper working order etc. The only way to prove that would be to present documentation to that effect. If it is not presented, I would think that would be grounds for dismissal. In PA, the officer must present the cal. certificate and some other info to show the equipment was in proper working order and the particular unit was accepted by the state.

I like the one in your link that says they must show "The radio microwave, mechanical, or electronic speed measurement device was being operated in such a manner and under such conditions so as to allow a minimum possibility of distortion or outside interference". That's pretty wide open.

Sorry I can't help you more with the technical issues of NE law so I can only offer moral support. Remember, you are not guilty until you plead guilty or the judge says you are.

 

[seniorjudge]

You know, seniorjudge, he did ask a perfect LEGAL question. Whether he is guilty or not, it's up to the court to decide. I would just prefer to help.

OP: to get the records, there are 2 ways. 1 st one is called discovery, and is sent to prosecutor (get the name from the court clerk), second is an official Freedom of Information Act request, and is sent to PD. They are essentially identical in content, so you can just change the first sentence and make sure you CC the court clerk on both. Google up the details, and which items to request. Good luck.

Please give me the cite that shows that the Freedom of Information act can be used on the police department for this kind of request.


The point here is that the radar does not even need to be used to convict the defendant.

It is only one piece of evidence.

The real evidence is the officer's testimony; if the testimony of that expert witness shows that the defendant was speeding, then the defendant is guilty of speeding.

 

[loulblades]

State of Nebraska Statutes

Section 60-6,192
Speed determination; use of speed measurement devices; requirements; apprehension of driver; when.

(1) Determinations made regarding the speed of any motor vehicle based upon the visual observation of any peace officer, while being competent evidence for all other purposes, shall be corroborated by the use of a radio microwave, mechanical, or electronic speed measurement device. The results of such radio microwave, mechanical, or electronic speed measurement device may be accepted as competent evidence of the speed of such motor vehicle in any court or legal proceeding when the speed of the vehicle is at issue. Before the state may offer in evidence the results of such radio microwave, mechanical, or electronic speed measurement device for the purpose of establishing the speed of any motor vehicle, the state shall prove the following:

 

[seniorjudge]

State of Nebraska Statutes

Section 60-6,192
Speed determination; use of speed measurement devices; requirements; apprehension of driver; when.

(1) Determinations made regarding the speed of any motor vehicle based upon the visual observation of any peace officer, while being competent evidence for all other purposes, shall be corroborated by the use of a radio microwave, mechanical, or electronic speed measurement device. The results of such radio microwave, mechanical, or electronic speed measurement device may be accepted as competent evidence of the speed of such motor vehicle in any court or legal proceeding when the speed of the vehicle is at issue. Before the state may offer in evidence the results of such radio microwave, mechanical, or electronic speed measurement device for the purpose of establishing the speed of any motor vehicle, the state shall prove the following:

They must have a lot of speeders in their unicameral!

 

[You Are Guilty]

You should be able to get blank subpoena forms from the Clerk. You can sign them yourself, but they are not "binding" and will likely get thrown out. Procedures vary by location, but either the clerk or the judge will need to sign them to make them enforceable.

Try speaking to a different clerk.

 

[sukharev]

Please give me the cite that shows that the Freedom of Information act can be used on the police department for this kind of request.

Go and read FOIA website, and that has all the info you need. Personally, I have been able to get PD records through this process, and have a complete copy of 2 laser manuals, 1 PD manual, officer's training record and laser calibration certification and test records.

 

[boogawooga677]

clarification

allow me to clarify...i was speeding, my speedometer read 68-69 (i honestly wasnt aware that 1 mile over the speed limit was a finable offense, i found the law on 1-5 miles over) the speed limit was 65. i am guilty of doing of doin around 73 due to vehicle malfunction, which im perfectly aware is my responsibility. i informed the clerk and gave her my vehicle diagnostic from the dealership, she told me to talk to the prosecution...he told me to make a court date and he would ask the officer if his radar gun was working, very condescendingly i might add...he also never looked me in the eye, kinda tripped me out. really im hoping on a diversion to the speed i believe i was traveling at, not 78 the speed the officer clocked me at (and which might be incorrect) but i know "failin to plan is plannin to fail" so i am tryin to cover all of my bases. i did talk to a friend of mine last night who said the clerk was very courteous to them, and gave them all the forms necessary to their case, including blank subpoena forms...i never realized the effect of having a stystem in which you are guilty until proven innocent, seemingly nice conservative ladies in the clerks office look askance at you, tell you they cant help and to call a lawyer, senior members of pretty helpful websites point at you from lofty perchs and condemn you without hearing the whole story,or having all the facts, or even being aware of the letter of the law.... i can gaurantee that if i do get a diversion they wont print in the paper, Mike L. of Norfolk NE speeding 75$ fine, due to vehicle malfunction....nope ill just be labeled among everyone else who was convicted of a crime....kinda sucks huh?...BIG shouts out to sukharev, you are guilty, and loulblades for the helpful information...
end of story

 

[seniorjudge]

allow me to clarify...i was speeding, my speedometer read 68-69 (i honestly wasnt aware that 1 mile over the speed limit was a finable offense, i found the law on 1-5 miles over) the speed limit was 65....

Yes, thus the term "speed limit".

Post back when you find out I am right.

 

[sukharev]

Yes, thus the term "speed limit".

Post back when you find out I am right.

Look, nobody is arguing with you on that one. However, in many states going a couple miles over is indeed not a ticketable offense (for example, in PA), and in others it bears no points. It remains an offense (technically)

 

[seniorjudge]

... However, in many states going a couple miles over is indeed not a ticketable offense (for example, in PA), and in others it bears no points....


Then the speed limit is "a couple miles over"....

 

[CdwJava]

Go and read FOIA website, and that has all the info you need. Personally, I have been able to get PD records through this process, and have a complete copy of 2 laser manuals, 1 PD manual, officer's training record and laser calibration certification and test records.

Because an agency chooses to honor the request does not mean they are legally obligated to.

The manuals are available from the manufacturer and cannot be photocopied due to copyright laws ... at least they SHOULD not be copied. The officer's training records (at least in CA) is not subject to release except as part of a court order or via proper Discovery ... if you received it as part of a FOIA request, it was because they chose to release it, not because they had to. The calibration records probably would be subject to such a request.

The difference might also be in the amount of time to respond, and the penalties for a failure to respond. The FOIA failure would not benefit a defendant's case much since a failure to respond to an FOIA request does not have the same penalties in court as a failure to respond to Discovery. In fact, as I understand it, the denied or delayed FOIA request would require the petitioner to go to court to compel the release of the documents ... a failed or delayed Discovery request could result in a dismissal.

Better to do it through Discovery.

- Carl