Insults, Threat, No on-site Citation??

State of residence: Pennsylvania

Okay, here goes... someone please tell me what the heck I should think/do here. This has got me worried sick.

On Thursday, September 23, 2004, at approximately about 8:05 PM EST, I was stopped by whom I believe to be a Plymouth Meeting township K-9 police officer. I am not sure of this as the officer did not give me any documentation.

I had turned off of W Germantown Pike, making a right onto Hickory road. I traveled down Hickory road, and proceeded to make a left turn onto Fountain road. It was at this time I saw the officer behind me, with his lights on. I proceeded to look for a safe place to pull over. I turned into the hotel parking lot at what I believe to be 2263 Hickory Rd, Plymouth Meeting, PA. The officer sounded his siren three times during a period of approximately a minute or two as I found a parking lot area to park in. I then stopped in the parking lot area of this hotel, and awaited the officer.

The officer approached, I removed my wallet from my back pocket, and rolled down the window. I don’t even recall saying a word before the officer said “You were driving like an idiot!” To this, I recall responding with an apology, and an attempt to explain my actions. I was then told by the officer in a confrontational tone “you stop when you see my lights and hear my siren; not when it’s convenient for you.” I tried to explain to the officer that I simply wanted to get out of traffic lanes, and it was not that I was trying to ignore him. He would have none of this. Instead, he again repeated that I was to stop. I recall always being told to get out of the path of traffic if pulled over in a driving class I had taken, and from what I had even learned from news shows on television. I do not see what I did wrong here. I did NOT run from the officer – not that he accused me of it anyway.

I had removed my driver’s license, and my concealed carry weapons license from my wallet, and handed both to the officer. I was told by my country sheriff’s department that it is procedure to hand over my gun carry license to the officer along with my driver’s license if stopped. I was merely trying to play by the proper rules. The officer took this information. He then made (sarcastically) a comment of “and they let you have a gun. That’s great”. After this, he took my gun carry permit, and tossed it at me in the car.

As I recall, the officer then left, and returned to his vehicle. After a few minutes, he returned, and tossed my license back at me. He then explained that “if I ever catch you driving like that again, I’ll take your car and you’ll walk home. The citation will be in the mail.” The officer walked away hurriedly it seemed, and I wanted to at least know what I was charged with. I said “sir, can I ask you a question?” He replied with some comment of which I do not recall as I could not clearly hear it. However, he went back to his K-9 unit, and left.

At no time was I rude to the officer. I remained polite, and non-confrontational. Despite his unprofessional mannerisms, of which I felt completely undeserving, I do not feel that I had done anything to warrant a stop. Before making the turn from Germantown to Hickory, the light was red, and I came to a FULL and COMPLETE STOP and waited, and then turned right. I do not recall anything reckless that I did during this time. The turn I made from Hickory to Fountain, although not from a full stop, was not, in my opinion, any form of reckless from I can understand. I was in complete control of my vehicle at all times, my tires were not squealing, and I had ran no traffic signs or signals. To the best of my knowledge, neither was I speeding the posted limit. I don’t believe I even had room to, as the turn comes up very quick for Fountain. Although I admit that the turn was faster than what may be considered average, I hardly consider it reckless or even bad driving. I have never once had an accident in my entire licensed driving life. My driving style has not changed that I know of. I am sorry if I did something that offended this officer or gave him reason to think I was driving recklessly, but regardless of this, I do not feel this warrants an unprofessional attitude such as insulting me and being provocative, nor citing me for an office I honestly feel would be unjust. The officer refused to answer questions, gave me no papers at the stop, threw my documents at me, and was generally unprofessional.

Bottom line: I don't even know what I've been charged with. My record is clean. All I had a while back was a ticket from NJ for speeding, but I don't recall the points ever coming over to my PA record. (It's true PA throws out the points for speeding I guess.) Someone told me K-9 cops can't really issue traffic tickets, but that sounds silly and hard to believe. Someone else said that this cop was trying to scare me with this whole mess. What should I think? Please let me know what you all think of this, and advice of officers who are currently in service would be most appreciated. What is the deal? This whole stop lasted some 7 to 10 minutes. Really short. Should I actually expect something in the mail, or what? I've never heard of an officer not issuing on-site! Thanks in advance, guys! I really don't get this. I'm a safe driver.

PS: Do police sometimes go after people in fancy cars for the hell of it or what?

[JETX]

You have a much higher chance of getting a response if you follow the forum rules... from the top of the screen: Please.... be brief, and to the point

[CdwJava]

Originally Posted by UnwillingTarget

Bottom line: I don't even know what I've been charged with.

If you get a citation in the mail you will then know both the violation and the identity of the officer.

It is possible that he had to leave suddenly due to another call, or, that he did not have a citation book handy.

Someone told me K-9 cops can't really issue traffic tickets, but that sounds silly and hard to believe.

I agree. It is not likely true ... if it were, then PA has some real odd laws or rules.

Someone else said that this cop was trying to scare me with this whole mess.

Could be.

What should I think? Please let me know what you all think of this, and advice of officers who are currently in service would be most appreciated. What is the deal? This whole stop lasted some 7 to 10 minutes. Really short.

Actually, 7 to 10 minutes is all the time it should take for a seasoned officer to complete a citation. When I worked in a big city with a slow Dispatch center, my stops from the time of activating my light until I cleared was between 7 and 8 minutes in most cases. Now, with a faster Dispatch, I can get it done in 6 to 8 ... sometimes it takes me a little longer because as a supervisor I don't write all that many tickets anymore.

He may have been trying to rattle your cage. Something he saw got him bothered. Maybe you cut out in front of him without noticing ... maybe there was a stop sign that you didn't notice ... or maybe he didn't notice you and he stopped short or something and that got him frazzled. Who knows?

Should I actually expect something in the mail, or what? I've never heard of an officer not issuing on-site! Thanks in advance, guys! I really don't get this. I'm a safe driver.

There are a number of reasons why he might not have issued a cite to you there. He may have gotten a call, he may not have had a cite book, his dog may have been doing the potty dance, etc.

I don't know the laws in PA with regard to this (though one poster here is a PA cop, so maybe he'll chime in), but I would wager that a ticket CAN be mailed to you.

PS: Do police sometimes go after people in fancy cars for the hell of it or what?

I suppose there are those that do ... but I don't know of any.

- Carl

I'm sorry about the length. I'm just upset over the incident, and I figured supplying details would help someone tell me what I should think of this. I'll be sure to keep my posts much more brief from now on.

CdwJava, thanks for the reply. The other interesting thing is that unlike what I'm used to, the officer did not ever ask for any registration on the car, or insurance. I was surprised at that.

[Bravo8]

There is no reason why a K9 officer could not issue a traffic citation. He is a sworn officer just as any other, and as such, can enforce all laws of the Commonwealth.

Not being there, I can't really explain the officer's demeanor or actions, although I think Carl did a good job of offering some possible causes.

The citation can be mailed. The citation will be filed with the District Justice, and the Judge will mail it to you. There are a few reasons why he may have decided to follow this route, as Carl also pointed out. I will tell you that I recall learning of case law requiring the issuance of the citation at the time of the stop barring any exigent circumstances, but I can't recall the case at the moment. Then again, something may have come up that would qualify as exigent circumstances.

As far as the officer's demeanor is concerned, if you are truly upset with the manner which he treated you, then I would suggest possibly calling the officer in a few days to discuss it further. If that doesn't satisfy your concerns, you could contact the officer's supervisor. I realize you do not know the officer's name, but the department should be able to narrow it down to which officer stopped you.

If you choose to follow up with the officer or his supervisors I hope that the account you posted here is really what happened. Not that I am suggesting you are lying, but I have heard citizens complaining about the way an officer treated them and the things the officer said when I know they are full of it......because I was the officer. They didn't recognize me.

Originally Posted by Bravo8

If you choose to follow up with the officer or his supervisors I hope that the account you posted here is really what happened. Not that I am suggesting you are lying, but I have heard citizens complaining about the way an officer treated them and the things the officer said when I know they are full of it......because I was the officer. They didn't recognize me.

Bravo8, thanks for your input. I know what you mean about people embellishing the truth over traffic stops. I'm not one to do so, but I've sure seen drivers do it and make up events, and always get caught in the lie. Considering most officers now have cameras in their cruisers, it's a pretty dumb idea! What I posted here was the absolute facts as I can best recall them. He was simply rude. The state police officer in NJ who stopped me for speeding was calm, professional, non-confrontational, and methodical. I was not thrilled at receiving a ticket, but at least the officer was professional. To my surprise, I never recall the points coming over to my PA license. I've seen differing opinions and accounts here, and wondered what the real story is.