Issued two tickets for same offence

[Tympanicman]

What is the name of your state? PA

Simply put I had an office stop me and write me two tickets for a speeding offence. The first ticket was for Speeding over 20 Mph above posted speed limits and a second ticket for "To Fast for Conditions".

Now there was no accidet involved in this stop. In fact I wasn't speeding but thats another issue.

Now which ticket stands when I go to court tomorrow, you can't be charged with the same crime twice, or stack ticket upon ticket, or am I totaly wrong here.

The office said he wrote the second ticket because the road was damp. I was driving a 4X4 Jeep by the way.


Also the State of PA has a Law now that an officer can not write a ticket using VASCAR unless the violation is more than 10 miles above the speed limit because the system is so poor. Now I have not been able to find anything on the "Rules" for operating the VASCAR system. But I find it hard to belive that an officer can run the system by using painted lines on a road at night in a fog, light rain...? He claims that he had a street lamp to see them by, but here is the kicker most of these lines are painted 150 feet apart his however were only 60 feet apart. and if you do the math for me to have been doing 55 in a 35 MPH zone it would have taken me less than 1 second to pass those lines and the reaction time needed to hit both those switches at night in a dark car that quick are unbelivable... What gives here... are there any rules....

Any help will be welcomed...

[The Occultist]

The only knowledge I can offer you is that you can be charged with BOTH as they are not the same charge. One is for violating the posted speed limit, one is for driving a speed unsafe for conditions, which has nothing to do with a posted speed limit.

[lwpat]

See what you can negotiate or retain an attorney. If you can get it down to one 3111a violation go for it. You are correct about the 60 feet but in traffic court it usually doesn't matter becasue the judge will not listen to you unless you have an attorney.

[loulblades]

Originally Posted by Tympanicman

What is the name of your state? PA

Also the State of PA has a Law now that an officer can not write a ticket using VASCAR unless the violation is more than 10 miles above the speed limit because the system is so poor.

Yes. See PA Vehicle Code Title 75 3368. Speed timing devices.

Now I have not been able to find anything on the "Rules" for operating the VASCAR system. But I find it hard to belive that an officer can run the system by using painted lines on a road at night in a fog, light rain...? He claims that he had a street lamp to see them by, but here is the kicker most of these lines are painted 150 feet apart his however were only 60 feet apart. and if you do the math for me to have been doing 55 in a 35 MPH zone it would have taken me less than 1 second to pass those lines and the reaction time needed to hit both those switches at night in a dark car that quick are unbelivable... What gives here... are there any rules....

Unfortunatly there appears to be no code in PA that establishes a minimum distance for VASCAR (see Commonwealth v. Vishneski). Doesn't seem right (could it be 1 foot?) but there may be newer info I am unaware of. Look at the manufacturer's specs, there may be something there. Are the time and distance blocks filled out on the ticket? I never got a VASCAR ticket, one of the few devices, so I don't know if that is normally filled out but from what I have read I think it is. What is the cal date?

[loulblades]

Oh I forgot to mention, in case you didn't know, that you will only suffer the points on the speeding (4 points if you don't get it dismissed or reduced).

[Tympanicman]

Just to give everyone a heads up I won this case in local traffic court. I know this is almost unheard of but there are some honest judges out there.

Using US DOT publication HS 807 748 avaliable at [url]http://isddc.dot.gov[/url]

HS 807 748 is the DOTs' investigation into the use of VASCAR and its findings. Basicly it states that the Mfg's clains about accuracy are false but if use properly can have a + or - 2 Mph swing. Using pages 103 thru 107 as evidance (Or if printing pages 119 - 123) paragraph 6.0 thru 6.2 These pages show that at 200 feet the Recorded speeds were off by as much as 10MPH and any distance less than that were humanly impossiable to record due to reaction times. It also states that an officer should have a distance marked out that would take a vehical 4 seconds to traverse at 10 MFH above the posted speed limit.

This is where there is no way 63 feet can be used and was incorrect.

Also upon the officers testomony I objected to facts not yet in evidance when he tried to introduce the "Painted Lines" on the road as his refrence points because he failed to offer any evidance that he Painted the lines or mesured them himself and could not testify7 to their distance because of hearsay. He was also unable to product the publics works personal who painted the line who could testify to the distance how it was determined to be correct and what method it was verified by.


Case Dismissed due to lack of evidance...


Good luck and Happy motoring...

PS - here is also a good book to read it is avlb on the web for free and is written by an attorney:

[url]http://neartheedge.net/9thgen/BYTicket1.pdf[/url]


Tymp...

[Zigner]

What happened to your Too Fast for Conditions ticket?

[loulblades]

Good for you.

[seniorjudge]

Originally Posted by Zigner

What happened to your Too Fast for Conditions ticket?

Inquiring minds want to know....