LAPD has jurisdiction on highway???

[Sir-speedy]

What is the name of your state? California

Hello everybody,

First of all, yes, I did jump into the Carpool lane riding solo, and I did cross the double yellow when I did it.

If anybody cares, it's raining here (if you lived here, you know what I mean), and I drive all over, being dispatched to get where I need to within a certain time window. I cannot be late more than twice, if that happens, I lose my job. I determined I could not make it without bypassing the parking lot the 110 freeway had become, and I took the risk.

Here is my question:
Can LAPD pull me over, and ticket me for commiting a violation on the Intersate 110 freeway?
Do I have any jurisdiction argument to have the ticket dismissed when I show up for my Notice to appear?

Thanx a lot, any help is greatly appreciated.

[JETX]

Originally Posted by Sir-speedy

Can LAPD pull me over, and ticket me for commiting a violation on the Intersate 110 freeway?

As long as it was done within the city limits, yep.

Do I have any jurisdiction argument to have the ticket dismissed when I show up for my Notice to appear?

If it was about LAPD issuing a citation inside their limits.... nope.

[BelizeBreeze]

Originally Posted by Sir-speedy

What is the name of your state? California

Hello everybody,

First of all, yes, I did jump into the Carpool lane riding solo, and I did cross the double yellow when I did it.

If anybody cares, it's raining here (if you lived here, you know what I mean), and I drive all over, being dispatched to get where I need to within a certain time window. I cannot be late more than twice, if that happens, I lose my job. I determined I could not make it without bypassing the parking lot the 110 freeway had become, and I took the risk.

Here is my question:
Can LAPD pull me over, and ticket me for commiting a violation on the Intersate 110 freeway?
Do I have any jurisdiction argument to have the ticket dismissed when I show up for my Notice to appear?

Thanx a lot, any help is greatly appreciated.

You have no jurisdictional argument.

[seniorjudge]

Q: Can LAPD pull me over, and ticket me for commiting a violation on the Intersate 110 freeway?

A: Yes.


Q: Do I have any jurisdiction argument to have the ticket dismissed when I show up for my Notice to appear?

A: No.

[CdwJava]

Originally Posted by Sir-speedy

Can LAPD pull me over, and ticket me for commiting a violation on the Intersate 110 freeway?

Absolutely. Even if it were outside the city limit, they could do so. In CA our authority extends throughout the state and does not end at the city limit or the county line.

Do I have any jurisdiction argument to have the ticket dismissed when I show up for my Notice to appear?

Nope.

- Carl

[JETX]

Originally Posted by CdwJava

Absolutely. Even if it were outside the city limit, they could do so. In CA our authority extends throughout the state and does not end at the city limit or the county line.

Carl, I find the above statement interesting... as it is in direct contradiction to most laws.

I am well aware of 'fresh pursuit' laws and how they apply to extra-jurisdictional cases. If we were outside our jurisdiction, we could exercise the 'law of public arrest', but were immediately required to turn the suspect over to the local law authority.

Could you please provide the statute or Code saying that your powers of arrest and/or citation apply ANYWHERE in the entire state, without the intervention of a local officer?

[seniorjudge]

Originally Posted by JETX

Carl, I find the above statement interesting... as it is in direct contradiction to most laws.

I am well aware of 'fresh pursuit' laws and how they apply to extra-jurisdictional cases. If we were outside our jurisdiction, we could exercise the 'law of public arrest', but were immediately required to turn the suspect over to the local law authority.

Could you please provide the statute or Code saying that your powers of arrest and/or citation apply ANYWHERE in the entire state, without the intervention of a local officer?

Carl, of course, will have to supply the California code, but in other states, municipal police officers are often also deputy sheriffs and deputy sheriffs (and sheriffs, of course) are given statewide jurisdiction for arrests.

Local sheriffs carry prisoners to the various state prisons in my state and, often, on the way back home, the sheriff will arrest a ne'er do well he catches in the act and the ne'er do wells are really surprised to get arrested by someone from 400 miles away.

[seniorjudge]

For example:

[url]http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/c500-599/5440000216.htm[/url]

Missouri Revised Statutes
Chapter 544
Arrest, Examination, Commitment and Bail
Section 544.216

August 28, 2005


Powers of arrest, arrest without warrant on suspicion persons violating any law of state including infractions, misdemeanors and ordinances, exception--power of municipal officer in unincorporated area.

544.216. Any sheriff or deputy sheriff, any member of the Missouri state highway patrol, and any county or municipal law enforcement officer in this state, except those officers of a political subdivision or municipality having a population of less than two thousand persons or which does not have at least four full-time nonelected peace officers unless such subdivision or municipality has elected to come under and is operating pursuant to the provisions of sections 590.100 to 590.150, RSMo, may arrest on view, and without a warrant, any person the officer sees violating or who such officer has reasonable grounds to believe has violated any law of this state, including a misdemeanor or infraction, or has violated any ordinance over which such officer has jurisdiction. Peace officers of a municipality shall have arrest powers, as described in this section, upon lands which are leased or owned by the municipality in an unincorporated area. Ordinances enacted by a municipality, owning or leasing lands outside its boundaries, may be enforced by peace officers of the municipality upon such owned or leased lands. The power of arrest authorized by this section is in addition to all other powers conferred upon law enforcement officers, and shall not be construed so as to limit or restrict any other power of a law enforcement officer.

(L. 1983 S.B. 72 � 2, A.L. 1986 S.B. 450, A.L. 1993 S.B. 180, A.L. 1996 H.B. 1047)

CROSS REFERENCES: Arrest on suspicion, Kansas City, RSMo 84.440 Arrest on suspicion, St. Louis City, RSMo 84.090 Failure to execute arrest warrant, penalty, RSMo 575.180


© Copyright Missouri General Assembly

[JETX]

Originally Posted by seniorjudge

544.216. Any sheriff or deputy sheriff, any member of the Missouri state highway patrol, and any county or municipal law enforcement officer in this state, except those officers of a political subdivision or municipality having a population of less than two thousand persons or which does not have at least four full-time nonelected peace officers unless such subdivision or municipality has elected to come under and is operating pursuant to the provisions of sections 590.100 to 590.150, RSMo, may arrest on view, and without a warrant, any person the officer sees violating or who such officer has reasonable grounds to believe has violated any law of this state, including a misdemeanor or infraction, or has violated any ordinance over which such officer has jurisdiction. Peace officers of a municipality shall have arrest powers, as described in this section, upon lands which are leased or owned by the municipality in an unincorporated area. Ordinances enacted by a municipality, owning or leasing lands outside its boundaries, may be enforced by peace officers of the municipality upon such owned or leased lands. The power of arrest authorized by this section is in addition to all other powers conferred upon law enforcement officers, and shall not be construed so as to limit or restrict any other power of a law.

The above law does NOT give statewide arrest powers to a 'local' police officer or sheriff.
I guess you missed the REQUIREMENT that the officer had to be IN HIS JURISDICTION to make the arrest. I took the liberty of bolding the part of the citation you missed.

City police... jurisdictional limit is the city limit.
County police/sheriff.... jurisdictional limit is the county line.
State police.... anywhere in the state.
Anyone, officer or not, can make a 'public arrest' (aka: citizen arrest) anywhere they want... and then bring in the local juridiction to secure, detain and present to magistrate.... with the testimony of the citizen (arresting officer).

[CdwJava]

Originally Posted by JETX

Carl, I find the above statement interesting... as it is in direct contradiction to most laws.

I am well aware of 'fresh pursuit' laws and how they apply to extra-jurisdictional cases. If we were outside our jurisdiction, we could exercise the 'law of public arrest', but were immediately required to turn the suspect over to the local law authority.

Could you please provide the statute or Code saying that your powers of arrest and/or citation apply ANYWHERE in the entire state, without the intervention of a local officer?

The answer is twofold. One is CA state statutes and case law, and the other is the fact that upon ascension to the throne (well, to their position) every chief executive in CA (sheriff and police chief) sends a letter to every other chief executive in the state authorizing the officers of the recipeint's agency to enforce the laws within his/her jurisdiction.

PC 830.1(a)(2) and (3) are key among the provisions:

830.1. (a) Any sheriff, undersheriff, or deputy sheriff, employed
in that capacity, of a county, any chief of police of a city or
chief, director, or chief executive officer of a consolidated
municipal public safety agency that performs police functions, any
police officer, employed in that capacity and appointed by the chief
of police or chief, director, or chief executive of a public safety
agency, of a city, any chief of police, or police officer of a
district, including police officers of the San Diego Unified Port
District Harbor Police, authorized by statute to maintain a police
department, any marshal or deputy marshal of a superior court or
county, any port warden or port police officer of the Harbor
Department of the City of Los Angeles, or any inspector or
investigator employed in that capacity in the office of a district
attorney, is a peace officer. The authority of these peace officers
extends to any place in the state, as follows:

(1) As to any public offense committed or which there is probable
cause to believe has been committed within the political subdivision
that employs the peace officer or in which the peace officer serves.

(2) Where the peace officer has the prior consent of the chief of
police or chief, director, or chief executive officer of a
consolidated municipal public safety agency, or person authorized by
him or her to give consent, if the place is within a city or of the
sheriff, or person authorized by him or her to give consent, if the
place is within a county.

(3) As to any public offense committed or which there is probable
cause to believe has been committed in the peace officer's presence,
and with respect to which there is immediate danger to person or
property, or of the escape of the perpetrator of the offense.

- Carl

[seniorjudge]

[url]http://www.courts.mo.gov/courts/pubopinions.nsf/ccd96539c3fb13ce8625661f004bc7da/a5a44b753d299d198625659f00550e04?OpenDocument&Highlight=0,544.216[/url]
[i]The version of section 544.216 in force on the date Appellant was arrested is the version in RSMo Cum. Supp. 1993. It reads, in pertinent part: "Any . . . member of the Missouri state highway patrol . . . may arrest on view, and without a warrant, any person . . . who he has reasonable grounds to believe has violated any law of this state, including a misdemeanor . . . . The power of arrest authorized by this section is in addition to all other powers conferred upon law enforcement officers, and shall not be construed so as to limit or restrict any other power of a law enforcement officer."


[url]http://www.courts.mo.gov/courts/pubopinions.nsf/ccd96539c3fb13ce8625661f004bc7da/9f2f065c3002b9a98625707a00534005?OpenDocument&Highlight=0,544.216[/url]
The original version of section 544.216 was enacted in 1983. Laws of Missouri 1983, H.C.S.S.B. 72, p. 921. However, even before that a law enforcement officer was authorized to arrest, without a warrant, any person whom he had reasonable cause to believe had committed a felony and anyone committing a misdemeanor in his presence. Rustici v. Weidemeyer, 673 S.W.2d 762, 769-70[22] (Mo. banc 1984).

While section 544.216, RSMo Cum. Supp. 1993, ostensibly authorized Riggs to arrest Appellant for a felony or misdemeanor if Riggs had reasonable grounds to believe Appellant had committed either, we need not concern ourselves with Riggs's authority to arrest for a misdemeanor, as the crime for which he arrested Appellant -- trafficking drugs in the second degree -- is, as noted in the first sentence of this opinion, a felony.


Pursuant to section 544.216, a law enforcement officer may arrest a person without a warrant when he sees the person violating any law of this state, or has reasonable grounds to believe the person has violated any law of this state, including a misdemeanor or infraction . (emphasis added)
Atwater provides that, "f an officer has probable cause to believe that an individual has committed even a very minor criminal offense in his presence, he may, without violating the Fourth Amendment, arrest the offender." 532 U.S. at 354, 121 S.Ct. at 1557. Missouri statutes do not impose a more restrictive standard, and therefore, we do not believe such a limitation is required in the present case.

[url]http://www.courts.mo.gov/courts/pubopinions.nsf/ccd96539c3fb13ce8625661f004bc7da/60f44ba4580ab5e58625700b005052a5?OpenDocument&Highlight=0,544.216[/url]

Where "an officer is empowered to make an arrest without a warrant, the arrest of an innocent person may be justified by the officer's reasonable belief that the person is guilty of the offense for which he was arrested." ; Rustici, 673 S.W.2d at 769; see also section 544.216 ("Any . . . deputy sheriff . . . may arrest on view, and without a warrant, any person . . . who he has reasonable grounds to believe has violated any law of this state . . ."); section 565.225.6 ("Any law enforcement officer may arrest, without a warrant, any person he or she has probable cause to believe has violated the provisions of this section [relating to stalking]."). In general, "the defense of probable cause is a question of fact for the jury." Signorino v. National Super Markets, Inc., 782 S.W.2d 100, 103 (Mo. App. E.D. 1989).

[CdwJava]

I have thrice had cause to act as a peace officer outside of my jurisdiction. Once I was in plain clothes and the other two times I was in a marked unit (one of those times I was at training from San Diego and in Sacramento). In the two instances I was out of county, I detained the subjects until the local authorities arrived not as a matter of legality but as a matter of practicality. Citing someone into a San Diego court for an offense in Sacramento wouldn't be lawful, and the one time I was in plain clothes I was also out of county. On one occasion when I was still working down south I was in a marked unit still within San Diego County but outside my city limits in the desert on my way back from the county jail in El Cajon when I stopped someone for doing 100+ ... I was able to cite them in to my home court without difficulty as we were all one big happy county court system. He alleged I had no authority on the freeway ... I suggested he take it to court ... he didn't.

- Carl

[seniorjudge]

This is a list:

THESE PEOPLE
Any sheriff or deputy sheriff, any member of the Missouri state highway patrol, and any county or municipal law enforcement officer in this state,


BUT NOT THESE PEOPLE
except those officers of a political subdivision or municipality having a population of less than two thousand persons or which does not have at least four full-time nonelected peace officers unless such subdivision or municipality has elected to come under and is operating pursuant to the provisions of sections 590.100 to 590.150, RSMo,

MAY ARREST
may arrest on view, and without a warrant,

WHO CAN GET ARRESTED
any person

CONDITIONS FOR ARREST
the officer sees violating

OR

who such officer has reasonable grounds to believe has violated any law of this state, including a misdemeanor or infraction,

OR

has violated any ordinance over which such officer has jurisdiction.

[seniorjudge]

Originally Posted by CdwJava

...I have thrice....

A good dosing of coal oil will fix that right up.

[CdwJava]

Originally Posted by seniorjudge

A good dosing of coal oil will fix that right up.

Your age is showing.

- Carl