Legal definition for "hands-free" in California?

[rustyj]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? California

I'm trying to understand California Vehicle Code 23123(a), but I can't seem to find any kind of legal definition for "hands-free". How can a law be obeyed or enforced if the central point of the law has not been defined and reasonably understood by all?

It's clear that "hands-free" does not mean that you're unable to have any contact with the hand held phone whatsoever. You're allowed to hold the phone to dial a phone number or lookup a name. You're also allowed to use the speakerphone, and with every phone I've seen, you have to physically push a button on the phone itself to switch over to speakerphone mode. Also with a speakerphone, it’s understood that you’ll have to press a buttons on the phone to both answer and end a call.

So, what does “hands-free” mean with respect to this law? Does it only apply to listening and talking? Is it legal to have a cell phone in your hand for any reason (besides writing, sending or reading a text-based communication, which 23123.5(a) prohibits) up until the point that you listen or talk, and then it becomes illegal?

 

[justalayman]

Legal definition for "hands-free" in California?

good luck. It appears there is no real solid consensus on what you are actually allowed to do with your phone and it be considered "hands free".

and with many phones, it is possible to be completely hands free so really, if the state wants to apply the strict definition of the term, they could and still allow use of the phone.

. You're also allowed to use the speakerphone,

not while holding it

 

[I_Got_Banned]

and with every phone I've seen, you have to physically push a button on the phone itself to switch over to speakerphone mode.

Then you haven't seen that many phones. You need to either get a bluetooth headset or a new phone or both, and one which allowes you the option to answer and dial without touching the phone. >That< would be within the meaning of "specifically designed and configured to allow hands-free listening and talking, and is used in that manner while driving".

 

[rustyj]

Then you haven't seen that many phones. You need to either get a bluetooth headset or a new phone or both, and one which allowes you the option to answer and dial without touching the phone. >That< would be within the meaning of "specifically designed and configured to allow hands-free listening and talking, and is used in that manner while driving".

I have a bluetooth headset, but even that requires the use of my hands. Or, does "hands-free" only apply to the phone itself, and therefore I can touch, hold, or do whatever I want with the bluetooth?

Is it legal to put the bluetooth in my ear while driving, or do I have to do that before I start the engine? Can I press and hold the bluetooth's on/off button for 5 seconds to turn it on? Can I press buttons on the bluetooth to adjust the volume while on a call, or to answer or end a call? Can I use my index finger to push and hold the earpiece deeper into my ear while the other person is talking so that I can hear them better?

 

[Zigner]

I have a bluetooth headset, but even that requires the use of my hands. Or, does "hands-free" only apply to the phone itself, and therefore I can touch, hold, or do whatever I want with the bluetooth?

Is it legal to put the bluetooth in my ear while driving, or do I have to do that before I start the engine? Can I press and hold the bluetooth's on/off button for 5 seconds to turn it on? Can I press buttons on the bluetooth to adjust the volume while on a call, or to answer or end a call? Can I use my index finger to push and hold the earpiece deeper into my ear while the other person is talking so that I can hear them better?

A bluetooth headset is not a phone.

 

[rustyj]

Ok, this is dabbling in the area of “It depends on what the definition of ‘is’ is…”, but couldn’t the argument be made that ALL listening and talking is hands-free (with the exceptions of sign language and braille)? Do you talk with your hands? No, you talk with your mouth. Do you listen with your hands? No, you listen with your ear. The acts of listening and talking have nothing to do with your hands and therefore, both listening and talking are inherently hands-free. Even if you hold the phone up to your ear, the functions of listening and talking themselves are still hands-free. You’re just choosing to hold the phone up to your ear with your free hand, and there’s nothing in the law that says you can’t do that. It just says that the listening and talking have to be hands-free, which they are.

 

[davew128]

I'm fairly certain that when the law was enacted in 2008 NO phone had complete hands free operation, even for voice dialing. Smart phone tech has jumped light years since then and even now I don't know of many if even any phones allow voice dialing without enabling it by pressing a button.

 

[rustyj]

not while holding it

The law does not say that you can't hold the phone while using the speakerphone. There is a FAQ on the DMV website that says this, but that's not the law. In fact, the law does not say anything about using a speakerphone, nor does it say that you can't hold the phone in your hand. It only says "hands-free listening and talking".

 

[Antigone*]

The law does not say that you can't hold the phone while using the speakerphone. There is a FAQ on the DMV website that says this, but that's not the law. In fact, the law does not say anything about using a speakerphone, nor does it say that you can't hold the phone in your hand. It only says "hands-free listening and talking".

Dude, if the phone is in your hands when while you are driving, you are not using a "handsfree" mode of communication.

 

[Zigner]

I'm fairly certain that when the law was enacted in 2008 NO phone had complete hands free operation, even for voice dialing. Smart phone tech has jumped light years since then and even now I don't know of many if even any phones allow voice dialing without enabling it by pressing a button.

My Motorola Razr V3 had hands free dialing (using the bluetooth ear piece, thus complying with the law). Press the button on the ear piece and, after the beep, just say "call Susie".

My current smart phone has the same feature.

 

[Antigone*]

My Motorola Razr V3 had hands free dialing (using the bluetooth ear piece, thus complying with the law). Press the button on the ear piece and, after the beep, just say "call Susie".

My current smart phone has the same feature.

My 2005 Pacifica has UConnect where you can do the same thing. My phone is in the back seat when I press a button on my rear-view mirror and then speak out "call home"

 

[tranquility]

The real answer is, no one really knows until the courts decide. I do know the CHP and the DMV have a posted opinions which are different from FreeAdvice forum opinion, but recognize the courts seem to be all over the place.

My phone is in the back seat when I press a button on my rear-view mirror and then speak out "call home"

How can that be configured for hands free listening and talking if you have to use your hands to make the call and talk?

 

[Zigner]

How can that be configured for hands free listening and talking if you have to use your hands to make the call and talk?

23123. (a) A person shall not drive a motor vehicle while using a wireless telephone unless that telephone is specifically designed and configured to allow hands-free listening and talking, and is used in that manner while driving.

The TELEPHONE is designed to be, and is being used, in a totally hands-free manner. My bluetooth headset and Tigi's mirror are not the phone

 

[Antigone*]

The real answer is, no one really knows until the courts decide. I do know the CHP and the DMV have a posted opinions which are different from FreeAdvice forum opinion, but recognize the courts seem to be all over the place.

How can that be configured for hands free listening and talking if you have to use your hands to make the call and talk?

I don't use my hands on the phone, tranq. I have my vehicle programmed with my contacts. I simply press a button on my rear-view mirror and say "call home." when I get a call I press the same button and say "hello." I never even touch my phone. I touch a button in my car, you know, like changing a radio station.

 

[tranquility]

Whew! Now that I have your opinions, do either of you have a court opinion on the matter?

As to the silliness:

The TELEPHONE is designed to be, and is being used, in a totally hands-free manner

Really. If I dial the phone with a stick is that hands free because it is used in a totally hands-free manner?