"Limit Line" infraction: 21453 (a) cvc--what are my options?

[CheezMonger]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA

My story: I was driving for Lyft one super-dead night at about 11:20 PM in San Francisco a few weeks back. I had two passengers in the car, and I had to get them to Civic Center Station. Coming down McAllister St towards Leavenworth, I needed to make a right on Leavenworth so I could drive around the corner to get back to my turn onto Market Street. They realize that they could actually just jump out of the car right there, at the corner, and attempt to get out of the car as we were slowly turning. There's zero traffic, no pedestrians, so I pause very briefly at the corner (for 2 seconds) and they just get out and head across the street. I go ahead and drive off, and get pulled over. Cop tells me I was "over the limit line," which, in all honesty, I had no idea what that was. I guess I was sort of blocking the crosswalk that wasn't being used at the time? OK...but there was literally nobody there other than the two passengers.

Anyway, I ran the citation through the superior court website, and it's some obscenely huge amount like $490.00, plus a friggin' point against my license? Seems terribly excessive for a fairly innocuous infraction, IMO. I'd like to contest this, as obviously I don't have 500 bucks lying around if I'm driving for Lyft. What would be a recommended strategy to contest this? Am I totally screwed? I tell you, even 3 weeks later, I'm really pissed off that I got such a chicken**** ticket while I'm broke as hell trying to make ends meet. Also bums me out to have a mark on my driving record when I've never received a moving violation in my 25 years of driving!

 

[HighwayMan]

Stop whining. If you are a professional driver you need to obey the traffic laws.

It doesn't matter what time of the day or night it is, nor does it matter what the traffic conditions were.

You can either plead guilty or not guilty - those are your options. You may be eligible to take traffic school and deal with it that way. I'll leave that to the California experts.

 

[CdwJava]

(a) A driver facing a steady circular red signal alone shall stop at a marked limit line, but if none, before entering the crosswalk on the near side of the intersection or, if none, then before entering the intersection, and shall remain stopped until an indication to proceed is shown, except as provided in subdivision (b).​

VC 21453(a) requires you to come to a complete stop "at" the limit line. Not beyond it, not before it, but "at" it. There is NO requirement that there be pedestrians or other traffic present.

And the $490 fine and fee amount is standard for that particular offense. Sorry.

You can choose to plead "not guilty" and contest the citation, but, based upon what you have written, you do not appear to have any valid defense.

If you are eligible for traffic school (i.e. you have not had a previous cite handled via TS in the last 18 months) you can plead guilty and use that to avoid the point on your license. Though, you can always plead "not guilty," go to trial, and HOPE that the officer doesn't show ... though, that might be a long shot. And if you lose at trial, traffic school may not be an option for you.

 

[CheezMonger]

(a) A driver facing a steady circular red signal alone shall stop at a marked limit line, but if none, before entering the crosswalk on the near side of the intersection or, if none, then before entering the intersection, and shall remain stopped until an indication to proceed is shown, except as provided in subdivision (b).​

VC 21453(a) requires you to come to a complete stop "at" the limit line. Not beyond it, not before it, but "at" it. There is NO requirement that there be pedestrians or other traffic present.

And the $490 fine and fee amount is standard for that particular offense. Sorry.

You can choose to plead "not guilty" and contest the citation, but, based upon what you have written, you do not appear to have any valid defense.

If you are eligible for traffic school (i.e. you have not had a previous cite handled via TS in the last 18 months) you can plead guilty and use that to avoid the point on your license. Though, you can always plead "not guilty," go to trial, and HOPE that the officer doesn't show ... though, that might be a long shot. And if you lose at trial, traffic school may not be an option for you.

Thanks for the info. Yeah, bad move on my part, I totally admit it. I guess because I see so much sloppy, shady driving in this city that goes unnoticed, I was a little shocked to see this particular instance get cited, particularly given the context. And 490 just feels incredibly expensive! Guess I'm stuck.

 

[CdwJava]

What surprises me is that you were stopped for a traffic offense at all! SJPD is grossly understaffed, and they stopped encouraging patrol officers to conduct traffic enforcement a few years ago. So, either this was a training car (and a new officer), or, it was a traffic officer (motorcycle unit or a vehicle assigned to traffic duty). Or, maybe, a bored patrol officer.

 

[CheezMonger]

What surprises me is that you were stopped for a traffic offense at all! SJPD is grossly understaffed, and they stopped encouraging patrol officers to conduct traffic enforcement a few years ago. So, either this was a training car (and a new officer), or, it was a traffic officer (motorcycle unit or a vehicle assigned to traffic duty). Or, maybe, a bored patrol officer.

Did you mean SFPD?

I got the impression the officer issuing the ticket was a rookie, and I didn't get the impression that he really wanted to write it in the first place. His partner stood w/ the patrol car the entire time, and was at least 15 years older than him. I think it's a mixture of new officer + boredom + targeting rideshare drivers, to be honest. His first assumption was that I was an out-of-town driver, and was taken aback when I showed him my ID with my local address. I swear, the infraction was so minor IMO, I just couldn't fathom why I was being pulled over to begin with.

Also, after reviewing the details of the vehicle code, I realize what I had done doesn't really match with the description. I guess stopping momentarily in the middle of a legal right turn on a light is bad, because part of the car was over the limit line? I'm seriously a bit confused. I wonder if it's possible to request the dashcam footage to better refresh my memory, because I seriously didn't think I was illegally turning on a red light (that particular intersection allows turns on red light, btw).

 

[CdwJava]

Did you mean SFPD?

Sorry ... I was reading another post about a stop in San Jose and got confused - I may have posted that in THIS reply and not in the post where I had intended. Sometimes I open up multiple windows ... oops.

I don't know the staffing problems in SF, though I suspect they are much the same as every other CA agency. But, in SF parking and traffic are huge issues, so I am not surprised they are enforcing the law there.

I got the impression the officer issuing the ticket was a rookie, and I didn't get the impression that he really wanted to write it in the first place. His partner stood w/ the patrol car the entire time, and was at least 15 years older than him. I think it's a mixture of new officer + boredom + targeting rideshare drivers, to be honest. His first assumption was that I was an out-of-town driver, and was taken aback when I showed him my ID with my local address. I swear, the infraction was so minor IMO, I just couldn't fathom why I was being pulled over to begin with.

If the contact and citing officer was in training, that would certainly explain it. If he were assigned traffic enforcement, that would also explain it.

But, yeah, cops write tickets. The numer one complaint to law enforcement agencies is not about dope, prostitutes, gang members, thieves, etc., it's traffic. More people are affected by traffic problems that any other "criminal" problem, so that is the chief complaint made to most law enforcement agencies. Hence, they might tend to address it more often in some agencies than others.

Also, after reviewing the details of the vehicle code, I realize what I had done doesn't really match with the description. I guess stopping momentarily in the middle of a legal right turn on a light is bad, because part of the car was over the limit line? I'm seriously a bit confused. I wonder if it's possible to request the dashcam footage to better refresh my memory, because I seriously didn't think I was illegally turning on a red light (that particular intersection allows turns on red light, btw).

Not all cars have dascham, and the dashcam may not have caught your infraction even if it did.

Plus, the section is really quite simple - either you stopped AT the limit line, or you did not. You admit you were blocking part of the sidewalk, so that tells me you were OVER the limit line (as in, you were not AT the line).

 

[CheezMonger]

Yeah, you're right. Total screwup on my part. I think driving in SF has really made me lose a bit of my vigilance while on the road. The things I see here (excessive double-parking, california rolls, etc) that go completely unchecked just made me think a quick stop at a corner on a quiet street wouldn't have been a big deal. I'm hoping the judge shows me a little mercy and doesn't break my bank any further!

 

[Zigner]

Cop tells me I was "over the limit line," which, in all honesty, I had no idea what that was.

Do you have a California driver's license? Did you, at some point, study for and successfully pass the written? It's definitely taught in the study materials, and has been for greater than 31 years (I can personally attest to that, as that's when I got my license.)

 

[CdwJava]

You have to understand that not stopping at the limit line is not an indication of wanton disregard for safety, or even recklessness, but, it can be unsafe and therefore it is an infraction.

Some courts have very little leeway with regards to waiving the fees associated with these offenses. The base fines are only a small fraction of the total $490, the rest are fees and assessments that cannot always be waived by the court. How much leeway the court might have or try to exercise if they wish is something I cannot say.

 

[CheezMonger]

Do you have a California driver's license? Did you, at some point, study for and successfully pass the written? It's definitely taught in the study materials, and has been for greater than 31 years (I can personally attest to that, as that's when I got my license.)

Yeah, I have (had) a flawless driving record, aced the driving test and passed the written. The term "limit line" is just one I'm not very familiar with. I never really used a name for that line, TBH.