Looking for advice from Crim Def Atty or EXP.Traffic Atty.

[I_Got_Banned]

Originally Posted by only1bigdaddyo

I have twelve pics that will definitely discredit him.

The only thing that the twelve pictures will do is show that under the condition where they were taken, it would be difficult to see if you were wearing a seat belt or not... All that depends on lighting, color of clothing, the angle from which those pictures were taken...

You're gonna need a lot more than 12 pictures to "definitely discredit him".

Also, you might want to think about this; if you claim these two officer are always harassing you, why do you think they only cited you for a minor seat belt violation? If they're out to get you and if they would go as far as faking a violation and lying under oath to get you in trouble, then why not cite for speeding, reckless/careless driving or even worse???

[only1bigdaddyo]

I am familiar with how it works. Most patrol cars have to be physically turned on,where as some troopers and county cars are always on and not only downloaded to a hard drive located in the trunk but rerouted to a central system in case the patrol car's is damaged. I did take it at the same time as the sitation and actuall in the same area. Regardless, they are not going to have pictures of either but will be asked to verify in the pictures. Thus getting back on topic, I don't have the birden of proof...they do.
Thanks again.

[only1bigdaddyo]

It's been an on going thing. AS for lying under oath???really? I see cops do that every day. That outh has become some what of a mockery. The pics will help me show that whether he admits it was impossible for him to see me due to him turning his vehicle around, it will show that there is definite question of whether or not you can see my seat belt. Plus I have two witnesses that will also swear under oath I was. All of that in conjuction with them having the burden of proof...is pretty cut and dry. Not to mention...I plan on asking him what I was wearing that day as a reference to his recollection of the day, along with a couple other common questions that will go to his recollection.

[Zigner]

Originally Posted by only1bigdaddyo

It's been an on going thing. AS for lying under oath???really? I see cops do that every day. That outh has become some what of a mockery. The pics will help me show that whether he admits it was impossible for him to see me due to him turning his vehicle around, it will show that there is definite question of whether or not you can see my seat belt. Plus I have two witnesses that will also swear under oath I was. All of that in conjuction with them having the burden of proof...is pretty cut and dry. Not to mention...I plan on asking him what I was wearing that day as a reference to his recollection of the day, along with a couple other common questions that will go to his recollection.

OHHHH, it's cut and dry. Sorry to interfere in your well thought out strategy.

[I_Got_Banned]

Originally Posted by only1bigdaddyo

I don't have the birden of proof...they do.

And the officer's testimony is typically sufficient to satisfy that burden!

[I_Got_Banned]

Originally Posted by only1bigdaddyo

Plus I have two witnesses that will also swear under oath I was.

Earlier you said you had three witnesses...

Originally Posted by only1bigdaddyo

... and this particular day I had three witnesses in the car with me that will testify to me having my seat belt on.

Is one of them refusing to cooperate?

Either way, your witnesses' testimony is much more biased than that of the officer's so it will not hold as much weight.

[only1bigdaddyo]

If I said three I must have included myself. No need for haste. Yes I did go to law school and sat on many cases...not this type of case but litigated cases none the less. In my experience their (cops) testimony is definitely not sufficient in all matters. Especially when it has been proven that there is doubt. So If you are claiming to be an atty. and have litigated cases like this...why wouldn't you know that?
"Are you?"

[only1bigdaddyo]

BTW...yes my plan is well thought out and I'm certain much more polished that an over paid SA or the officer involved.
Thanks for the input...I think

[only1bigdaddyo]

Listen...I appreciate your input but I'm not looking to argue symantics. I'm looking for input and while some of your information was informative and brought questions to thoughts or proceedings I had, I'm looking for more objective input.

The only thing that the twelve pictures will do is show that under the condition where they were taken, it would be difficult to see if you were wearing a seat belt or not... All that depends on lighting, color of clothing, the angle from which those pictures were taken...

You're gonna need a lot more than 12 pictures to "definitely discredit him".

What would be your guestimate of enough pictures needed to cast/show doubt...or discredit him as per the term we're using???

If you were the judge and I showed this officer 12 pictures and he was able to get one of them correct, then I asked him what I was wearing, who else was in the vehicle, along with a number of other questions and the officer failed to answer all of them...would you honestly say regardless...I haven't a shadow of a doubt in my mind that you weren't wearing your seat belt??? Really??? think hard before you answer. Because no human in there right mind couldn't or woulnd't see doubt in that and let's face it...isn't that what this is all about. Shadow of doubt and burden of proof?
So give me some constructive non objective feedback. I like your thinking but need you to be more along the lines of asking "what ifs" and "do you thinks?"

[I_Got_Banned]

Originally Posted by only1bigdaddyo

Yes I did go to law school and sat on many cases...not this type of case but litigated cases none the less. In my experience their (cops) testimony is definitely not sufficient in all matters.

So you've never litigated a traffic case like this and yet you know that in cases like this, the officer's testimony is definitly not sufficient in all matters???

Originally Posted by only1bigdaddyo

Especially when it has been proven that there is doubt.

I disagree, nothing that you've stated here will help you cast ANY doubt... Those pictures certainly will not!

Originally Posted by only1bigdaddyo

So If you are claiming to be an atty. and have litigated cases like this...

I wouldn't even attempt to contest a case like this... Especially not with the "evidence" that you have... It would be a waste of my time, the court's time and the officer's time.

Originally Posted by only1bigdaddyo

why wouldn't you know that?

I don't even "think" that so why would I "know" that?

Originally Posted by only1bigdaddyo

"Are you?"

"Am I" what?

[Maestro64]

Personally, I like seeing people fight every ticket. So I am on your side and many of my points comes from both directions and from looking at situation from the other side, i am not challenging you, I am just getting to think.

To you point, about the police being less then ethical, if that is your belief then you strategy better address that, Having pictures are good, but you have to assume the officer will not say things happen the way you believe they have happen. Like do you really think he will say he did a u-turn in a driveway to come after you and could not see if you were wearing your belt.

He could simply say, he drove past you and he saw you reach up and grab the belt when you saw him. If he makes this statement, not sure how you disprove this statement. Too many times people walk in court expecting the officer to say one thing only to find out they made completely different statements. Hell, many use a standard script when testifying not matter what happen, especially with traffic tickets.

Also, not all police cruisers are equipped with video recording systems, and especially the more advance ones with a HDD in them. Most are still using and old fashion VCR. Also, people will tell you that many time they are not even on until the emergency lights are turned on. Those that are running all the time are of so low quality you can barely make anything out. Also, some department recycle taps about every two weeks unless something happens and are told to hold the tape.

[only1bigdaddyo]

"I got Banned" thank you for all your input. I will let you know how it works out.
"Maestro" much more constructive input and that's what I'm looking for.

Here's the bottom line I'm not sure what you do for a living "I got banned" but my respect for police officers is very nil and as for SA well they were the one's who couldn't cut it as criminal defense. Forget all the BS of wanting to do some good and right in the world. It's BS!

So if you fit into either of these catagories...I'm sorry. I'm not singling any one cop or SA out I'm just saying that most can not find their Arse with both hands and a map!

So I feel confident with my approach and still welcome all constructive input towards my going to court. If you have some more helpful tips or hints...please enclose.
Thanks a million.

[I_Got_Banned]

Originally Posted by only1bigdaddyo

Listen...I appreciate your input but I'm not looking to argue symantics. I'm looking for input and while some of your information was informative and brought questions to thoughts or proceedings I had, I'm looking for more objective input.

You mean you only want to read what you want to read... All other opinions should not even be posted!

Originally Posted by only1bigdaddyo

What would be your guestimate of enough pictures needed to cast/show doubt...or discredit him as per the term we're using???

One picture!!!

That picture would be showing you wearing your seat belt at the moment that the officer glanced over and saw you (or thought he saw you) not wearing one. But you'll never ever get that picture. It's a moment in time and one that has passed.

All other pictures taken afterward, and while they might prove that it would be difficult for some to ascertain whether you were belted or not, they will only tend to prove that under a different set of conditions.

Originally Posted by only1bigdaddyo

If you were the judge and I showed this officer 12 pictures and he was able to get one of them correct, then I asked him what I was wearing, who else was in the vehicle, along with a number of other questions and the officer failed to answer all of them...would you honestly say regardless...I haven't a shadow of a doubt in my mind that you weren't wearing your seat belt??? Really???

If I were the judge I would say “Nice try Mr Daddyo, but your 12 pictures (taken after the fact), the video of him making a three point turn, the question of who was in the car, what you were wearing and whether your shoes laces were tied or tangled... all of those are immaterial fact to the offense that you allegedly committed.

The only material facts to the offense that you allegedly committed are:
Were you driving when the officer witnessed you? YES.
Were you driving when he pulled you over? YES
Did he verify your identity by asking you for your driver's license? YES
Did he cite the right person for a violation the he testified to witnessing? YES.

Originally Posted by only1bigdaddyo

So give me some constructive non objective feedback. I like your thinking but need you to be more along the lines of asking "what ifs" and "do you thinks?"

Well, here one “why do you think”:
When it comes to the “evidence” that you claim will afford you the Slam Dunk that you're hoping for... And specifically, the “video recording from his Dash cam”.... If you're suggesting that he was not able to determine whether you were wearing your seat belt or not, then why would you have any reasonable expectation that the dash-cam video will prove that you were (wearing your seat belt)?

Now, and since I have answered most of your question, I would like for you to answer mine...

If these two officers are out to get you, and if they are two of the few bad apples in that crate, then why charge you with such a minor offense? Why not something more serious? Furthermore, and if you want to assume that your witnesses will offer such an unbiased testimony, then why would these two officer's cite you in the presence of witnesses? Why not catch you when you're all alone???

I too like Maestro's input... Not just here, but in every thread that he posts in, and he knows that. I disagree with him at times and yet that is what this forum is all about; voice an opinion, argue your point and whether you're right or wrong, you've learned something new.

With that being said, I should add that I lose nothing if you win and gain nothing if you lose. So whether I agree with you or not, and despite the fact that many say that I am biased against the people who are entitled to their innocence until proven guilty", BUT if my opinions will have the slightest little impact on your ability to put together a better defense, then you still benefited in the end, whether you want to admit it or not.

[only1bigdaddyo]

You've made some suberb points and yes I will happily answer your question. The main reason "I know" there is a bias factor of dislike from the PO PO...is the one officer was fooling around with a girl I use to see. So without getting to involved in that drama, trust in the fact that I am definitely a realist and not a drama seeking individual whom feels he has anything to gain by making up erroneous claims of incompetent officers. Because I am will contest and beat anything they throw at me that is illegitimate and they would never pull off something of that magnitude. Again...remember we are dealing with very very simple minded creatures. So in short he did arrest me and charged me with phone her ass ment and after I defended myself it was dismissed and the arresting officer was scolded quite nicely to my taste. This is also the attending but not the issuing officer for the seat belt violation.

Also...regarding the dash came, it wasn't to prove or dis-prove that I was wearing it. Only to show that there was no possible way for him to have seen me. So ulimately, I'm going to take my chances and hope that the judge is one of the many that play at the courses we own

In short...I don't want you to think I don't appreciate the time you take and the info you give. And yes all posts are welcome I was just looking for something more suggestive. IE. Ideas, tips, suggestions etc.

So thanks again.

[Zigner]

Originally Posted by only1bigdaddyo

You've made some suberb points and yes I will happily answer your question. The main reason "I know" there is a bias factor of dislike from the PO PO...is the one officer was fooling around with a girl I use to see. So without getting to involved in that drama, trust in the fact that I am definitely a realist and not a drama seeking individual whom feels he has anything to gain by making up erroneous claims of incompetent officers. Because I am will contest and beat anything they throw at me that is illegitimate and they would never pull off something of that magnitude. Again...remember we are dealing with very very simple minded creatures. So in short he did arrest me and charged me with phone her ass ment and after I defended myself it was dismissed and the arresting officer was scolded quite nicely to my taste. This is also the attending but not the issuing officer for the seat belt violation.

Also...regarding the dash came, it wasn't to prove or dis-prove that I was wearing it. Only to show that there was no possible way for him to have seen me. So ulimately, I'm going to take my chances and hope that the judge is one of the many that play at the courses we own

In short...I don't want you to think I don't appreciate the time you take and the info you give. And yes all posts are welcome I was just looking for something more suggestive. IE. Ideas, tips, suggestions etc.

So thanks again.

Something smells in here