Michigan--driving on expired license

[mi325]

What is the name of your state? Michigan

I was driving home tonight, and got pulled over for a law which I didn't even know existed (can't drive in left lane on a two lane highway, unless passing). Anyway, I got a warning on that, but didn't know that my license had expired months ago...and that's what he gave me a ticket for. I never got anything in the mail (which I know many people probably say lol), and I don't too often look at the expiration date on my license for no reason, of course. I did renew my license plate promptly before my birthday, and if I'd received a notice about my driver license expiration, obviously I would've done both at that time...but never got that notice, only the license plate expiration.

So I looked the fine up, noticed it has a $150 fine (including an additional $150/year for 2 years, which I found out our governor started with a new "driver responsibility program"), but what kind of scared me was the fact that it's not just a civil infraction--it's a misdemeanor. I've never had a criminal record, not sure if this would be on that type of record being a misdemeanor or not, but I certainly don't want to have anything on a criminal record attached to my name! Does this go on a "criminal record"...in which employers pull when applying for jobs, etc.?

My other question is...what my best course of action on this is? Would admitting responsibility with explanation be the best way (since I now know I did this, just not realizing it having not received any renewal notice or noticing the expiration had passed on my license)? Is it recommended I get a lawyer for this? Or, would none of the above most likely do any good? It didn't "just expire" last week or anything, it was several months ago...which I also wonder how it wasn't discovered in using it somewhere else before now.

Oh--one other thing, although I looked it up and found it to be a misdemeanor (on the web site for that county actually), the police officer checked "C/I" (civil infraction) and did NOT check "Misd" for misdemeanor. Does this make any difference at all? Does this mean it would go down as just a civil infraction, or would it be "adjusted" to a misdemeanor by someone? (I wasn't sure if that counted as one of those mistakes police make on tickets that gets a ticket dismissed, or put in differently, etc.).

Thanks in advance for any/all help!

[The Occultist]

Originally Posted by mi325

What is the name of your state? Michigan

I was driving home tonight, and got pulled over for a law which I didn't even know existed

Unfortunately, as I'm sure you're aware (this honestly isn't meant to patronize you), that doesn't excuse you.

I don't too often look at the expiration date on my license for no reason, of course.

Heh, I bet you're going to start doing that now, eh?

Does this go on a "criminal record"...in which employers pull when applying for jobs, etc.?

I don't know the answer to that, but even if it does show up on searches, I wouldn't worry about it. If it comes up, they'll see it was for a traffic infraction. If you're applying at a bank, why would they give two licks about what you did while driving? Of course, if you're applying for some sort of a driver position, that may raise an eyebrow or two, but it's not like you drove your car off a bridge or anything, right?

Would admitting responsibility with explanation be the best way

Were I in your position, I would indeed plead guilty with an explanation. Do note, however, that pleading guilty with an explanation is still pleading guilty, and as such the court will be under no obligation to show some leniency. But, however, they just might!

Is it recommended I get a lawyer for this?

A local attorney would be the best resource available to you. They know what the courts want to hear, and would be key in negotiating either a dismissal or the best possible plea bargain for you.

one other thing, although I looked it up and found it to be a misdemeanor (on the web site for that county actually), the police officer checked "C/I" (civil infraction) and did NOT check "Misd" for misdemeanor. Does this make any difference at all? Does this mean it would go down as just a civil infraction, or would it be "adjusted" to a misdemeanor by someone? (I wasn't sure if that counted as one of those mistakes police make on tickets that gets a ticket dismissed, or put in differently, etc.).

Officers are often times granted some leeway in discretion and can choose to cite you with a lesser version of the same offense if they so choose. I imagine this is what happened with you, and I find it unlikely that your cite will be amended to include a harsher version of the charge.

Thanks in advance for any/all help!

Sure thing, but definitely standby as there are regular posters far more knowledgeable than I that might be able to offer further insight for you (or even correct any misinformation I provided!)

[mi325]

Thank you for your quick reply. Although there may be others to reply who may know more, it does help put my mind at ease at least a little bit.

I definitely understand the whole "ignorance to the law is no excuse"...and I accept that responsibility, although even if I got a ticket for the driving in the left lane part...I suspect a magistrate (or judge, whoever) would have been lenient there, since I was visiting a friend over an hour north of me, and I have absolutely no two lane highways anywhere near me...so it would quite obviously be something I wasn't used to (never lived in an area unpopulated enough to have only two lanes on an interstate, which is what I was on). Yeah, I'll probably be obsessed with looking at my driver license now, especially the expiration date lol.

On the record/job thing, you made a good point...and I realize if I was someone who was into drugs, had DUI's, and/or an extensive criminal record...I probably wouldn't care at all about this being on a "record", but since I have none of the above (or anything else for that matter), it was a bit scary when I saw the big "M" next to the charge on the fines table. But you're probably right, if I have even 1 line to explain it, or even "name" it, jobs/etc. probably wouldn't care much.

Another thing that made me feel a bit better was what you said about police choosing a more lenient offense (civil infraction instead of misdemeanor). I had no idea that was the case, and if that is true, maybe that's what he did. I do believe that the police office really realized I was having a bad night (as of the time the blue lights went on lol), and that I certainly wasn't intentinally doing anything wrong, or even just "careless" about the things that were done. So yeah, if he had that power, I believe it's likely he checked civil infraction to make it a lesser degree of a ticket (I hope that's the case anyway!).

I am planning on getting my license renewed today, as I'm afraid to drive at all without it now (although this may be one of those..."as long as you keep the ticket in your car, they can't ticket you again for it", but I still want to get it immediately now that I'm aware it's expired!).

If anybody who is a lawyer, judge, etc., can respond to confirm any of this...it would be much appreciated. One other thought, do they keep records (that they can't fudge somehow) in secretary of state/DVM offices as to who they sent driver license renewal notices too? Or is it just "assumed" that they sent them all out? I'm asking because it would be nice if they could look me up, and realize by some computer glitch/etc., that I never received a renewal notice. I know that doesn't completely relieve me of my responsibility if I'd looked at my license expiration date on my license, but at least it would confirm my story...and I would think a judge would think, "Yeah, I don't look at my license expiration date either, so if they didn't send me a notice, I might not realize it either...".

Thanks again in advance!

Originally Posted by The Occultist

Unfortunately, as I'm sure you're aware (this honestly isn't meant to patronize you), that doesn't excuse you.



Heh, I bet you're going to start doing that now, eh?



I don't know the answer to that, but even if it does show up on searches, I wouldn't worry about it. If it comes up, they'll see it was for a traffic infraction. If you're applying at a bank, why would they give two licks about what you did while driving? Of course, if you're applying for some sort of a driver position, that may raise an eyebrow or two, but it's not like you drove your car off a bridge or anything, right?



Were I in your position, I would indeed plead guilty with an explanation. Do note, however, that pleading guilty with an explanation is still pleading guilty, and as such the court will be under no obligation to show some leniency. But, however, they just might!



A local attorney would be the best resource available to you. They know what the courts want to hear, and would be key in negotiating either a dismissal or the best possible plea bargain for you.



Officers are often times granted some leeway in discretion and can choose to cite you with a lesser version of the same offense if they so choose. I imagine this is what happened with you, and I find it unlikely that your cite will be amended to include a harsher version of the charge.



Sure thing, but definitely standby as there are regular posters far more knowledgeable than I that might be able to offer further insight for you (or even correct any misinformation I provided!)

[seniorjudge]

Originally Posted by mi325

...
I definitely understand the whole "ignorance to the law is no excuse"...and I accept that responsibility, although even if I got a ticket for the driving in the left lane part...I suspect a magistrate (or judge, whoever) would have been lenient there, since I was visiting a friend over an hour north of me, and I have absolutely no two lane highways anywhere near me...so it would quite obviously be something I wasn't used to (never lived in an area unpopulated enough to have only two lanes on an interstate, which is what I was on). Yeah, I'll probably be obsessed with looking at my driver license now, especially the expiration date lol.
....

Bad driving on unfamiliar roads is NOT a defense.

Don't use this story.

[mi325]

Great news (considering the possibilities with this one)! Just thought you all could benefit from this. I called a lawyer this morning, and apparently the law changed in January...and driving on an expired license is no longer a misdemeanor, it is now just a civil infraction. I'm sooooo relieved about this! Although it does go into Michigan's fairly recently new driver responsibility program, which translates to another $150/year for 2 years...in addition to the $150 fine for the ticket, at least it's not a misdemeanor. The lawyer also thinks I may have a good shot at calling the Secretary of State office (DMV equivalent for driver licenses in other areas) and finding out if they can verify my renewal notice was sent, and to where...since I moved to MD and back a few years back, and he thinks they may not have updated my record properly...and this may have caused my renewal notice to not come to me.

So, no misdemeanor = great news (which is probably why the police officer checked the civil infraction box), and chance of it being easily proven that I didn't get a notice at my current address = even better! Unfortunately I hear the offices are closed today, being Veteran's Day, and I'm a bit leary of driving today/tomorrow...but still need to get to work.

Anyone know if it's technically legal (as much as possible) for me to drive, given that I was already given a ticket and have no way of renewing my license until tomorrow? Is that one of those things that as long as you keep the ticket in the car and get it renewed as soon as humanly possible, that they won't nail ya for again? I've been told that's the way it would work with expired plates (which mine are current), but wasn't sure if it applied with an expired license that's already been ticketed, especially when the office to renew it is closed.

Thanks again!

[VeronicaLodge]

i know exactly when my license is expiring and it isnt even expiring for 2 more years!

[Curt581]

Originally Posted by mi325

Anyone know if it's technically legal (as much as possible) for me to drive, given that I was already given a ticket and have no way of renewing my license until tomorrow? Is that one of those things that as long as you keep the ticket in the car and get it renewed as soon as humanly possible, that they won't nail ya for again?

No, it is not legal... not even "technically".

Yes, you can (and most likely would) be ticketed again.

No, it won't matter if you have the first ticket in the car. The officer will see it as having no excuse, since you know your license is no good.

Neither the police nor the court will care whether or not the renewal office is closed today. After all, you've had 'months' to renew.

My suggestion is to find alternate transportation until you can renew.

I've been told that's the way it would work with expired plates (which mine are current), but wasn't sure if it applied with an expired license that's already been ticketed, especially when the office to renew it is closed.

Also a fallacy. You certainly can be ticketed again for expired plates. Each instance of driving the vehicle is a separate violation. If you were to be stopped and cited for speeding, then immediately took off speeding again, you could be stopped and cited a second time. Same principle.

If you get stopped and the officer doesn't cite you, it's because he exercised his own discretion, not because he couldn't.

[mi325]

Originally Posted by Curt581

No, it is not legal... not even "technically".

Yes, you can (and most likely would) be ticketed again.

No, it won't matter if you have the first ticket in the car. The officer will see it as having no excuse, since you know your license is no good.

Neither the police nor the court will care whether or not the renewal office is closed today. After all, you've had 'months' to renew.

My suggestion is to find alternate transportation until you can renew.



Also a fallacy. You certainly can be ticketed again for expired plates. Each instance of driving the vehicle is a separate violation. If you were to be stopped and cited for speeding, then immediately took off speeding again, you could be stopped and cited a second time. Same principle.

If you get stopped and the officer doesn't cite you, it's because he exercised his own discretion, not because he couldn't.

Thanks for your reply. Actually that last part, about not being ticketed again for certain things like expired plates...was right out of a police officer's mouth, when he was ticketing a friend for that exact reason. The same thing happened with me personally several years back, for no proof of insurance. The police officer said to just keep the ticket in the car until I got the issue taken care of, and as long as I had that showing that I was already ticketed, I couldn't get ticketed again for the same offense. He actually said, "So this is your get out of jail free card until you get this taken care of." There was a time limit on it...I believe it was like 10 days or 14 days, that the ticket would be valid for in that situation...if pulled over again.

[seniorjudge]

Originally Posted by mi325

Thanks for your reply. Actually that last part, about not being ticketed again for certain things like expired plates...was right out of a police officer's mouth, when he was ticketing a friend for that exact reason. The same thing happened with me personally several years back, for no proof of insurance. The police officer said to just keep the ticket in the car until I got the issue taken care of, and as long as I had that showing that I was already ticketed, I couldn't get ticketed again for the same offense. He actually said, "So this is your get out of jail free card until you get this taken care of." There was a time limit on it...I believe it was like 10 days or 14 days, that the ticket would be valid for in that situation...if pulled over again.

Another urban legend.

This would not work if the second cop wanted to give you a ticket.

[Indiana Filer]

Originally Posted by mi325

One other thought, do they keep records (that they can't fudge somehow) in secretary of state/DVM offices as to who they sent driver license renewal notices too? Or is it just "assumed" that they sent them all out?

Didn't you get notice of the expiration date when you received your driver's license? It should have been printed on the license, so you should have known when it expired, even though it was several years away at the time that they notified you.

Is there any state that wastes resources by sending out renewal notices for driver's licenses?

[Zigner]

Originally Posted by Indiana Filer

Is there any state that wastes resources by sending out renewal notices for driver's licenses?

Yep - California sends out notices. They give you instructions on how to renew and what the fees are.

[Zigner]

Originally Posted by mi325

Thanks for your reply. Actually that last part, about not being ticketed again for certain things like expired plates...was right out of a police officer's mouth, when he was ticketing a friend for that exact reason. The same thing happened with me personally several years back, for no proof of insurance. The police officer said to just keep the ticket in the car until I got the issue taken care of, and as long as I had that showing that I was already ticketed, I couldn't get ticketed again for the same offense. He actually said, "So this is your get out of jail free card until you get this taken care of." There was a time limit on it...I believe it was like 10 days or 14 days, that the ticket would be valid for in that situation...if pulled over again.

The officer was wrong. As SJ pointed out, what that ticket does is to actually point out that you are aware you are driving illegally.

[mi325]

Originally Posted by Indiana Filer

Didn't you get notice of the expiration date when you received your driver's license? It should have been printed on the license, so you should have known when it expired, even though it was several years away at the time that they notified you.

Is there any state that wastes resources by sending out renewal notices for driver's licenses?

Michigan normally sends out renewal notices too, but I didn't get one. The officer told me I should have received a notice a few weeks before, and the lawyer I talked to was looking into why I didn't get one...it looks like it may have been a move I made out of state, then a move back to the state (Michigan), with things not getting transferred back correctly, being the reason that my renewal notice didn't arrive. Strange how my license plate renewal made it to me every year since then, and I've renewed that well before the deadline, but the license renewal...never came. Of course, yes, I could have seen that my license was expired on my license...but like I said, most people don't take notice to that kind of thing unless they have a reason to look at it (like getting a renewal notice in the mail, for example). If it was my plates, that I do EVERY year, I probably wouldn't noticed that if I hadn't gotten that renewal notice. I'd also talked to people that were amazed that I've made it this long without someone picking up on it, since people aren't supposed to take it as valid ID if it's expired (store clerks, paying by check at certain places, entering casinos that actually scan your license, etc.). I suppose one of those things would have probably tipped me off to it sooner, however, I hardly ever drink (going to store to buy alcohol...I pretty much never do), I don't smoke, I rarely pay anything by check...never in a store (more of an online banking guy here), haven't been to a casino in eons, etc. So the places "most people" present it, I don't, for the most part. Maybe I ought to take up frequent drinking so this doesn't happen again...lol. (Just kidding).

Of the people I've talked to, a few have made this same mistake of not realizing their license was expired...but were made aware of it much sooner in a store buying alcohol or in a similar way. I imagine many clerks wouldn't notice it either, but if you do those things enough, someone would probably pick up on it. I'd much rather be rejected for buying alcohol or cigarettes (if I did either) because of an expired ID, than the way this was brought to my attention lol.

Oh well, live and learn...I can see myself now, "just in case" for the future, setting an alarm in my cell phone/PDA...so I'll *definitely* know the next times in case I don't get a renewal notice. I certainly won't let this happen again...I'll probably have all kinds of alarms going off a month ahead of time.

Thanks again for everyone's input.

[Zigner]

Originally Posted by mi325

but like I said, most people don't take notice to that kind of thing unless they have a reason to look at it

That is just a rationalization and a WAY over-generalization. I know that my license expired in 2007 (it was renewed on time), and I know my new one expires in 2012.

[mi325]

Originally Posted by Zigner

That is just a rationalization and a WAY over-generalization. I know that my license expired in 2007 (it was renewed on time), and I know my new one expires in 2012.

Zigner,

LOL, wow. Well, all I can say is...good for you. I wasn't in any way trying to start an argument, but from your recent responses, it seems like you are for some reason. Your last few posts have come across as defensive, to say the least, for no apparent reason. I wasn't even directing any reply posts toward you, yet you seem to be jumping in with defensive comments as if someone is arguing with you.

I appreciate the helpful, non-argumentative advice provided by some here. However, the other defensive posts/personal attacks are really unnecessary.