My Hands Are Tied and It's FRUSTRATING!

[tamking2]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Massachusetts

Last weekend I was driving my kids home from an out of town Little League Game and we were pulled over. I wasn't sure what the problem was. The officer came to my window and asked for my license and reg. I politely gave it to him, then asked if I had done something wrong.
He informed me that my car was not registered. WHAT? Of course it was.
I figured, no big deal, he will go look it up and we will be ok. After all, I hadn't received anything in the mail to renew, no tickets or fines, excise tax was paid and I purchased my car in October '07.

He came back with $100 fine. Unregistered Vehicle, my registration expired on June 30th. Apparently the last digit on your plate drives the expiration date and not when you buy the car. I learned something new. He told me to go home, register it online and if I wanted I could appeal the ticket.

So... I did. I immediately went home, registered the car and mailed back the appealed ticket.

I thought I was OK until the very next day (Sunday) I get pulled over for the SAME thing! (Were they having a contest???) My kids are in the car, already upset from the day before.. I didn't know what to say.

Told the officer that I had just been pulled over for the same reason and I had gone to the website and renewed. He told me, I was still expired and technically he can tow me. (What the heck) At this point, I just want to get out and walk for the rest of my life. My kids were crying and so he was nice and let me go as long as I was going straight home (Thank You)

Well, today I get my court date. Apparently, there is a $25 charge for the hearing with a magistrate. If I want to talk to a judge, it will cost another $50. So either I pay the original $100 or it's going to cost me $75 to maybe appeal it. What grounds do I have to appeal it anyway? I mean it did expire 11 days earlier.

I'm so frustrated, apparently paying the fine automatically adds 2 points to your insurance. So instead of $100, which would be no big deal, they gotta make money somehow. It's now messing with my insurance and going to end up costing me over $1000 in the long run.

I don't get it. I'm not a criminal. I didn't slap plates on someone else's vehicle and try to pass it off as my own. I wasn't speeding, didn't piss anyone off... I am a busy mom of 4 kids who has NO idea how to read a license plate...

Why don't we have a grace period? Who can I talk to about that? Why aren't officers nice and give you a reminder without slapping the cuffs on you? Where are the days of Mayberry where the kids looked up to police officers instead of fearing them?

I don't know. I wish I had a case. I think I just have to send in my $100 and pay insurance out my ear...What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

 

[CdwJava]

Yes, there could be a grace period and, yes, the officer(s) could have issued a warning. But then we get into an argument of how long should the grace period be? At what point are warnings no longer valid? What use is an expiration date if there is an official or even an unofficial grace period always associated with them?

Having been in your position of forgetting to pay the registration, I can empathize. But, like with so many other bills we have to remember to pay them and if they are late, their are consequences. And, you did pay them last year, didn't you? How did you figure out to pay the fees in 2008?

While it is very true that you could have been cut a break - and I am sorry that you were not - it is not the fault of the officer that your vehicle was unregistered. And wasn't the "slapping the cuffs" line a tad exaggerated? They did not really arrest you, did they?

And why were your kids fearing the police over a traffic stop? Mine have reacted differently when my wife has been stopped - they laughed ... until mommy glared at them ... but they laughed again when mommy phoned daddy telling them that somehow it was daddy's fault.

Off hand, I cannot see any easy defense to your situation unless your state requires an officer to be present at court and you are willing to schedule a court appearance and cross your fingers that the issuing officer fails to show up. That might be one shot in the dark if you are willing to take it (and, assuming that the officer's presence is required in your state).

- Carl

 

[tamking2]

Can't fight the RMV!

It wasn't that I "Forgot" anything.
The RMV is supposed to send out the renewal forms 6-8 weeks before it expires. I never received it, so I didn't realize that it was expiring. I didn't move, I get my mail, but for some reason, that piece of mail didn't make it to me. Slapping the cuffs was a play on words because my hands are tied.

My point was not to play with the system, it was to find a way to make it more reasonable. There are many states that do have a 10 or 20 day period that you can make it right, I was asking for advice on how to approach that process.

Whether it's your registration, an excise bill, license or whatever... The ownership is always on the driver and never on the RMV.
I'm paying them $100 for the ability to drive my car. The least they can do is put a .15 stamp on a piece of cardboard and remind me it's coming up. Heck, add a dollar to my fee for your time!

Your answer: Deal with it! (Maybe this revenue generator was your idea...)

I'm glad your kids find it funny when someone is in trouble, mine have a little more compassion.

Thanks to adding to the frustration.

 

[davew128]

I drove vehicles in Massachusetts for twenty years. I never failed to renew my license or registration on time. BTW, IIRC when you renew online with the RMV, they send you an email that substitutes as a registration card when the process is complete. While their website says three business days, it's my experience its usually one. That said, YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE DRIVEN THE CAR. Until you get something in writing that you can hand to a police officer, the car is not legally registered.

Carl, Mass registrations are biannual, not annual like in CA. It is easier to lose track of it I suppose, but on the other hand, the month stickers stand out like a sort thumn on the license plate.

 

[I_Got_Banned]

It wasn't that I "Forgot" anything.

It is YOUR responsibility to ensure that your vehicle is street legal, it is YOUR responsibility to pay the required fees on time. By you suggesting that someone should have reminded you, that means you “FORGOT”; you can call it whatever you choose to call it though...

There are many states that do have a 10 or 20 day period that you can make it right, I was asking for advice on how to approach that process.

OK, lets figure this out together...
You registration expired on June 30th.
You were pulled over and cited last weekend which according to my calendar, was the 25th and 26th of July.
So even with a 20 day "Grace period", you would have still been in violation both times that you were pulled over. (Saturday & Sunday).

You earned that citation fair and square...

Where are the days of Mayberry where the kids looked up to police officers instead of fearing them?

Kids learn by what they hear and see... My guess is that they were never pulled over, arrested or mistreated by the police. So their image of the police might be a misconception that was more imprinted upon them than one they learned on their own.

Sorry & good luck!

 

[tamking2]

The message is lost...

As I post my reply a big smile is on my face. Apparently, you have all "Forgotten" what the purpose of this website is.
I'm sorry that I opened myself up to ridicule by posing a question about how to go about instating a grace period.

I admit, I am a forgetter... Ask anyone who knows me, they will tell you.

Whatever it was that I said wrong, I take it back. Sarcasm and joking don't translate well over the internet. I'm a newbie here... Apparently that means that the Senior member can assume anything he wants and just go to town...

The incident happened on July 11/12.The first officer told me to go online and register it right away(I did, withing the hour), he did not tell me I shouldn't drive. If he had, I wouldn't have. Maybe they assume everyone knows, I didn't.
After the second episode, I went directly to the registry on Monday morning and straightened it out in person. All set, not really a big deal at all.

I have never been pulled over, arrested or mistreated by the police either so I don't know what you are trying to imply. The guy was not friendly, he did not smile, he did not greet them and it was apparent that I was in trouble.
I didn't expect him to be my best friend, but when you have 4 kids staring at you, at least say "HI"

Somehow I have given you the idea that I am trying to get out of paying the citation. I don't have a problem paying the $100. As you said, "I earned it" What I have a problem with is paying the insurance company an additional $200/yr for the next 6 yrs because this is a surchargable offense.

Exactly, how is that reasonable?

When my registration was late, they still knew who I was and who the car belonged to. I have paid my sales tax, excise tax, no fines or suspensions etc. My car is safe... I was just late.... Even the worst credit cards give you 18 days before they start harrassing you.

You don't have to reply... You know I'm definitely wrong anyway...

PS. I did learn that it's not the sticker that tells you the month anymore.
My sticker was 09, which I thought meant September (Made sense since I bought my car in October.)
Instead, the registration coincides with the last digit of the plate.
My plate ends in a 6, so June it was....and 09 was the year...
Who knew?? (I do now)

 

[davew128]

Ok let me put this in legal terms for you:

THERE IS NO GRACE PERIOD IN MASSACHUSETTS

Will you get a break if you appeal to a magistrate? Maybe, depends on the department citing you, depends on the court.

FWIW, registration being based on the license plate number is a new one to me, but now that I think about it, the last digit on my last MA plate was an 8, and yup the regiatration renewed 8/31. That said, the sticker was ALSO an 8....meaning that your previous car had a registration expiring in the same month so it seems you assumed it somehow changed when you transferred it onto a new vehicle.

One last thing, the reason CdwJava's kids laugh when he gets pulled over is because he is a cop**************

 

[tamking2]

Let ME put it in obvious terms for you..

I wrote this post to see if anyone had advice on how an everyday person like myself would try to change the law to allow for a grace period.

I am not a lawyer.... Hence the advice. Maybe I write my state rep, maybe the commissioner for the RMV, maybe the governer... I have no idea where to begin such a petition so .... silly me, I wrote here to see if you guys knew.

Maybe everyone here is always trying to say they didn't do it, so that is what you are hearing from me..(It isn't what I am saying)

So, please stop insulting me and everyone else you think you are better than.

 

[CdwJava]

It wasn't that I "Forgot" anything.
The RMV is supposed to send out the renewal forms 6-8 weeks before it expires. I never received it, so I didn't realize that it was expiring. I didn't move, I get my mail, but for some reason, that piece of mail didn't make it to me. Slapping the cuffs was a play on words because my hands are tied.

If the law in your state REQUIRES the state to send these notices out to you, you may have a point. I strongly suspect that these reminders are "courtesy" notices and NOT required.

Also, I suspect that your registration card or documents with the car has the date of the registration on it.

My point was not to play with the system, it was to find a way to make it more reasonable. There are many states that do have a 10 or 20 day period that you can make it right, I was asking for advice on how to approach that process.

I don't know of a state that mandates a 10 or 20 day leeway. Perhaps there is, or, perhaps you are confusing a local practice with a legal process. If your state grants that leeway, then use it. If not (and I suspect not) then your options are really quite few.

Whether it's your registration, an excise bill, license or whatever... The ownership is always on the driver and never on the RMV.

Correct.

I'm paying them $100 for the ability to drive my car. The least they can do is put a .15 stamp on a piece of cardboard and remind me it's coming up. Heck, add a dollar to my fee for your time!

Perhaps you can advocate your state legislature to create such a mandate. I doubt that would happen because it would not only force the state to incur some additional costs, but it would also likely force the state to send them all via registered mail lest some owner claim he or she did not receive it in the mail. So, such a mandate is almost certainly not going to happen.

Your answer: Deal with it! (Maybe this revenue generator was your idea...)

You can deal with it or ignore it.

And, no, I cannot take claim for registration fees, fines, court costs, or anything of the like. Not only because I have never been to MA, but because I am not in the legislature in any state.

I'm glad your kids find it funny when someone is in trouble, mine have a little more compassion.

Yours did not appear to have compassion, they appeared to be scared and upset ... I just find that odd. I've been a cop for 18 years and have pulled over many people and have yet to see any kids upset or scared over a simple traffic stop unless it turned into a yelling match or a fight.


- Carl

 

[Orcons]

Let ME put it in obvious terms for you..

I wrote this post to see if anyone had advice on how an everyday person like myself would try to change the law to allow for a grace period.

I am not a lawyer.... Hence the advice. Maybe I write my state rep, maybe the commissioner for the RMV, maybe the governer... I have no idea where to begin such a petition so .... silly me, I wrote here to see if you guys knew.

Maybe everyone here is always trying to say they didn't do it, so that is what you are hearing from me..(It isn't what I am saying)

So, please stop insulting me and everyone else you think you are better than.

If you want to change the law you should contact your state rep and/or state senator. They can tell you whether there is any chance of something like this happening and they would be the best ones to try and move it forward.

As far as the tickets, I would take it before the clerk magistrate. With any luck they will find you not responsible given the circumstances. In any case any fees you have to pay (and the fee to go before the clerk must be new, I never heard of that, just the fee to appeal to the judge) will be short money compared to the hit on your insurances. If you are found responsible you should shop around for insurance - with the new system you might find a company that will not give you as large a hit for these violations.

BTW, don't mind the "you have no defence now suck it up and take your punishment" crowd - it is par for the course. Yes you made a mistake but you face a punishment far in excess of the magnitude of your error. I think the cop should have given you a warning but it is discretionary. With any luck the clerk will be a little more symapthetic.

 

[tamking2]

Carl,
Thank you for being a cop for 18 years. I do appreaciate you and anyone else in law enforcement.
I find it hard to believe that in 18 years in traffic stops you haven't effected one child in a negative way. I'm sure this officer didn't think he did either. There was no argument or fight. It was just the first time they have been stopped and just like anyone else, they were nervous.
The problem is, you go back to your car and never see these kids again. We live with them. Kids ask questions based on conversations they hear and what the observe. They are still trying to figure out the world and how everything works. Sometimes they put the pieces together wrong and it is scary for them.

I have 3 kids that you can definitely reason with and get them to understand that traffic enforcement is done to keep people safe.
My 4th is extrememly sensitive and HATES getting in trouble. He makes himself sick with nervousness.

When a police officer comes to your window (He stopped in front of theirs so they got to see his gun) and tells you that you have done something wrong, they are watching and listening. They ask questions and they probe. They asked why he stopped us. I told them it was because our registration expired, it was no big deal. They asked what could happen if we didn't, were we going to jail, would they tow the car, would we have to walk home.

I assured them that everything was ok, we only had to pay a fine. I also assured them that we would take care of it as soon as we got home. They watched me do it online. (I thought I did all the right things)
The next day, my nervous one was still asking questions. It was obviously bothering him. So when we got stopped again, he started crying which in turn made the others cry.

I'm not replying because I want you to think I am Mother of the Year. I am very far from it, but I try to do the right thing.
I am replying so that maybe you get a glimpse of what may happen on the other side of the window.
I am not a criminal,(and I don't think being 11 days late renewing a registration should ever enter you into that category) so please stop trying to prove me guilty. I am not looking for a defense. I never once said I wan't wrong.

#1 - The punishment does not fit the crime
#2 - Is it possible for the average citizen to do something about it?

There are other states that have enacted a grace period (Texas, Minnesota, Louisiana, etc) My state does not, but they do mail out the renewal cards 6-8weeks before.(unfortunately, I depended on the mailing that never came.)

Sure my registration does have the exact date and month on it,
And it is my responsibility to know that it didn't come.
I wish I was organized enough to keep track of all that. I can't wait til the day that it becomes my responsiblilty to pay all of my bills without a monthly statement... Let the LATE fees Begin! (Or we can put our feet down and try to make a change that keeps up with busy lives)

 

[Zigner]

Look, YOUR STATE has no grace period. You can ask for one, but it won't help YOUR CASE.

When I was young (ie: before I struck out as an "adult), I learned to use a calendar for bills. Buy a calendar for $5 and sit down to write down the due dates of all your bills for the year. (Your kids can help so they learn this important lesson). Then, you can look at the calendar at the beginning of each month (or week even) so that you don't miss paying your bills again. Do this at the beginning of each year.

(As an aside - and I know she won't like to hear this - I am a bit bothered by the "whine" that this OP has given, and I feel sorry that her kids are learning her attitude. She gives lip-service to it being her fault, then tries to place the blame anywhere else she can.

 

[tamking2]

Orcons...

Thanks, that was the information I was looking for.
I'm sorry the message has somehow come across as a whine... never the intention.

 

[davew128]

As far as the tickets, I would take it before the clerk magistrate. With any luck they will find you not responsible given the circumstances. In any case any fees you have to pay (and the fee to go before the clerk must be new, I never heard of that, just the fee to appeal to the judge)

I also have never heard of it, but the last time I had a citation in MA was in 2002 and the last time I appealed anything was during the Bush administration. The first one.

BTW, don't mind the "you have no defence now suck it up and take your punishment" crowd - it is par for the course.

Well lets face reality: She HAS no legal defense. The reason she got pulled over for it twice in a couple days is because cops are trained to look for that sticker on the license plate. On the bright side, this is a civil matter in MA and not an infraction like in most states. On a background check it would only show up if they run her driver's license record.

 

[davew128]

#1 - The punishment does not fit the crime

The state legislature disagrees with you

#2 - Is it possible for the average citizen to do something about it?

You live in Massachusetts so if you ever read a newspaper or watch the nightly news you know the likliehood of anything citizen friendly ever coming out of the legislature.