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  1. #1
    bbb2828 is offline Junior Member
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    Exclamation Need help!! - No posted speed limit sign

    Hello,
    I need some help with a recent moving violation. The ticket recieved was under New York State Vehicle and Traffic Law Secton 1180 Subsection D. The ticket was for 43 in a 25mph zone.

    I did not remember seeing a posted speed limit sign from the time I got onto the main road to when the police officer ticketed me, not having seen one I stayed below the state maximum of 55mph. I admited my speed to the officer because I didnt feel it was in the wrong and had nothing to hide.

    After work that day I re-traced my steps taking pictures along the way, and memory served me right there is NO posted speed limit sign from the time I got onto the main road to where the local police officer was parked.

    The help I need is what the proper law is for when there is no posted speed limit sign, and what I can do about it. I don't want to just pay it to make it go away if im not in the wrong. But if I am id rather be properly informed about it.

    My driving record is clean with no tickets, prior offenses, or points. The ticket occured in the Village of Wappingers Falls, NY within Dutchess County and is goverened by the NYS vehicle and traffic law listed at this website:

    [url]http://public.leginfo.state.ny.us/menugetf.cgi?COMMONQUERY=LAWS[/url]

    Any and all help is much appreciated. Thank you.

    - Brian
    Last edited by bbb2828; 01-28-2007 at 07:34 PM. Reason: Changed a typo (thanks justalayman)
  2. #2
    moburkes is offline Senior Member
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    You must obey the posted speed limit, or, if no limit is posted, drive no faster than 55 mph (88 km/h). Often, it is just common sense to keep your actual speed limit well below the posted limit. For example, the legal limit on an icy or foggy expressway might be 55 mph (88 km/h), or even 65 mph (100 km/h) on some highways, but the safe speed to drive would be much lower. Even if you were to drive at 50 mph (80 km/h) on that hazardous highway, a police officer could ticket you for driving at a speed "not reasonable and prudent" for existing conditions. As with right-of-way, speed limits are not absolutes. You must adjust your speed if conditions require it.

    To keep traffic flowing smoothly, some highways also have minimum speed limits. Driving slower than the minimum speed can interrupt the traffic flow and create a dangerous situation. Even if there is no minimum speed limit, those driving much slower than the posted limit can be as dangerous as driving too fast.

    Be aware that some cities have speed limits lower than 55 mph (88 km/h) that may not be posted. For example, the speed limit is 30 mph (48 km/h) in New York City unless another limit is posted.

    My new signature:
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    I'll take you on one-to-one in a volcabulary test anywhere, anyplace, anytime.
  3. #3
    bbb2828 is offline Junior Member
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    Thanks for the response.

    In this instance, it was a clear day no rain, fog, icy, slight wind, or heavy traffic.

    I'm fighting the ticket so i need someones help with regards to my particular case.

    What laws are pending. etc etc.
  4. #4
    justalayman is offline Senior Member
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    Since the speed limit was stated as 25 mph, I would imagine this is in a residential area.


    You will need to research the statutes to see if their is a default speed limit for this type of area. I started wading through them and got bored.

    Although you did state the local gov't entity defers to the state requirements, you may want to check with them to be sure. Sometimes a local jurisdiction may defer as you have indicated but reserve the classification of particular areas to their own discretion.

    BTW: I think it was section 1180 not 1080. There is no section 1080 in the vehicle and traffic codes.
  5. #5
    efflandt is offline Senior Member
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    Strangely the NY state driver's manual does not mention a state default city speed limit, except that there may be local default limits like 30 mph in NYC (what moburkes quoted). If there was no posted speed limit and no local ordinance is listed on the ticket, ask the department where that 25 speed limit is listed. Variable unposted local speed limits would be speed trap heaven for local police.

    Are you sure that there was nothing posted about the speed limit at city limits. For example Illinois has statewide 30 mph within city limits. Some communitities have a brain dead 20 mph local limit, but that is posted where any streets enter the community (not on all streets within the community).
  6. #6
    bbb2828 is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by justalayman View Post
    BTW: I think it was section 1180 not 1080. There is no section 1080 in the vehicle and traffic codes.
    Yes your right that was a typo. Thanks for your reply as well.
  7. #7
    LSCAP is offline Member
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    You state when " I got on the main road. "

    That suggests you were in town. ( not driving through)

    When you entered the town there should have been a sign stating the town speed limit. That applies to anywhere in town, unless they post another sign saying higher or lower limits.
  8. #8
    bbb2828 is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by LSCAP View Post
    You state when " I got on the main road. "

    That suggests you were in town. ( not driving through)

    When you entered the town there should have been a sign stating the town speed limit. That applies to anywhere in town, unless they post another sign saying higher or lower limits.
    From my house to where the officer pulled me over there are several speed signs ranging from 30-45 (and apparently an invisible 25, j/k) so there isn't a set speed limit for the area or town.
  9. #9
    The Occultist is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by bbb2828 View Post
    From my house to where the officer pulled me over there are several speed signs ranging from 30-45 (and apparently an invisible 25, j/k) so there isn't a set speed limit for the area or town.
    There likely is a set speed limit for the area/town, with the qualifier "...unless otherwise posted..."
  10. #10
    cepe10 is offline Member
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    Section 1622, 1643 might not even allow them to set speed limits that low...
    No such speed limit applicable throughout such city or village or
    within designated areas of such city or village shall be established at
    less than thirty miles per hour.

    Regardless:


    Here's some additional info regarding the requiments for speed limit signs (and zones) that are enforceable.

    Section 2B.13 Speed Limit Sign (R2-1)

    Standard:
    After an engineering study has been made inaccordance with established traffic engineering practices, the Speed Limit (R2-1) sign (see Figure 2B-1) shall display the limit established by law, ordinance, regulation, or as adopted by the authorized agency. The speed limits shown shall be in multiples of 10 km/h or 5 mph.
    Guidance:
    At least once every 5 years, States and local agencies should reevaluate non-statutory speed limits on segments of their roadways that have undergone a significant change in roadway characteristics or surrounding land use since the last review.

    No more than three speed limits should be displayed on any one Speed Limit sign or assembly.

    When a speed limit is to be posted, it should be within 10 km/h or 5 mph of the 85th-percentile speed of free-flowing traffic.

    [url]http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/HTM/2003r1/part2/part2b1.htm#section2B13[/url]
  11. #11
    bbb2828 is offline Junior Member
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    thanks to everyone that replyed. Your help is much appreciated.

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