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Need Helping Fighting VC22350 unsafe speed

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DaviDas

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA

Hi,
I need help with my Citation VC22350 Officer lasered me at 47mph on posted speed 35mph but the officer put 30mph for posted speed limit on the ticket. Also I received the Traffic survey and it stated that the 85% is 39mph and the street width is 50 ft and zoning is considered to be residential-single & multi. Now from this information provided do I have any chance of fighting this with TBWD, please help. Thank you.
 


I_Got_Banned

Senior Member
I need help with my Citation VC22350 Officer lasered me at 47mph on posted speed 35mph but the officer put 30mph for posted speed limit on the ticket.
What does the ticket say under “P.F./Max Speed”?
Maybe the officer wrote 30mph for the “Safe Speed” which would depend upon his view of current conditions at the time.

Also I received the Traffic survey and it stated that the 85% is 39mph and the street width is 50 ft and zoning is considered to be residential-single & multi.
What is the date of the survey? That might make a difference as to whether the justified limit should be the 5mph nearest the 85th percentile or the 5mph increment below the 85th percentile.

Also, what is the recommended speed limit in the survey? Does the survey mention any other conditions? Does it have a cover page or an analysis page wherein the engineer stated his opinion?

Maybe you can upload an image of it somewhere where we can look at it.
 

DaviDas

Junior Member
Thanks for the reply I got Banned,
The ticket says under“P.F./Max Speed” 30mph. The Survey is dated January 9, 2007. The posted speed limit on the survey is 35mph 85% is 39mph, additional zone description states it provides access to the I-5 Fwy ramps and conditions not readily apparent to driver -Residential Density -13 or more separate dwelling houses/ business structures on one side within .25mi. The cover page just states when the survey was dated, no opinions from the engineer.

I would attach it here but it doesn't give me the option to do so, any ideas where i can post the survey up? Thanks
 
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DaviDas

Junior Member
Also I received my discovery request from the City Attorney and the officers Certificate of Calibration on his laser unit that he lasered me with is dated 7 months after the Violation date, would this be any help to fighting the ticket?
 

I_Got_Banned

Senior Member
Thanks for the reply I got Banned,
The ticket says under“P.F./Max Speed” 30mph. The Survey is dated January 9, 2007. The posted speed limit on the survey is 35mph 85% is 39mph, additional zone description states it provides access to the I-5 Fwy ramps and conditions not readily apparent to driver -Residential Density -13 or more separate dwelling houses/ business structures on one side within .25mi. The cover page just states when the survey was dated, no opinions from the engineer.
OK, first things first... The survey shows a posted speed limit of 35, so you can argue that the officer made an error in writing you up for 47 in 30 versus 47 in 35. While that will NOT invalidate the citation, it will in fact allow you to argue for a fine reduction (if you are found guilty) from the (approx) $332 (for 16mph to 25mph over the limit) to (approx) $211 (for 1 mph to 15 mph).

Second, the fact that the survey is dates after May 20, 2004 means that (barring any mitigating factors) the speed limit should be set to the the 5mph increment nearest to the 85th percentile speed (of 39mph) thereby making it 40 mph. However, a further 5mph reduction in the speed limit is allowed by virtue of the notation regarding residential density (see CVC 40802(b)(1) & 40802(a)(2) V.C. Section 40802 - Speed Traps and CVC 515 V.C. Section 515 - Residence District ). Therefore, the speed limit reduction (from 40mph to 35mph) is justified.

Furthermore, and considering the fact that that particular stretch of roadway is considered a “local road” (residential district/density) a “speed trap” argument is not valid here...
I would attach it here but it doesn't give me the option to do so, any ideas where i can post the survey up?
You can scan it as a pdf file, upload it to a hosting site (like Image hosting, free photo sharing & video sharing at Photobucket), and post the link here. However, and since you posted the pertinent section which justifies the reduction, there is no need to do that.

Also I received my discovery request from the City Attorney and the officers Certificate of Calibration on his laser unit that he lasered me with is dated 7 months after the Violation date, would this be any help to fighting the ticket?
Pursuant to CVC section 40802(c)(1)(D), the LASER unit must be calibrated within the 3 years PRIOR to the violation date. So assuming that the officer were to present the same calibration certificate that you received, you can move to exclude that piece of evidence on the grounds that a calibration after your alleged violation is irrelevant to your case and then you could argue that your case should be dismissed due to the lack of accurate measurement of your alleged speed.

There is a chance that the officer will present the correct certificate (one that is calibrated prior to your violation date) or he may even just reference a certificate that is “on file with the court”. You do have the right to request to see the certificate so that you can ascertain that the calibration was indeed conducted prior to you being cited, and if it is not, then you can follow through with the argument I suggested above.

In summary, the speed limit is justified; a speed trap argument is not applicable here (local road); you need to ensure that the LASER was calibrated within 3 years prior to the date you were cited; and lastly, if all else fails in the way of a dismissal, you can argue that your fine should be set on the basis of 12mph over the Prima Facie limit, rather than 17mph over the limit.

Let us now how it works out... Good luck!
 

DaviDas

Junior Member
Thanks for all your help I got Banned, I need to submit a TBWD and I will use the information you provided and I will post the outcome.
 

commuter

Junior Member
I have heard that a speeding ticket can be contested in court based on the conditions of the road at the time. i.e If there were no people around 5:30 AM, clear weather, safe conditions one could contest the part of this law in that the speed at which you were traveling at was not of any safety issue or endanger to others or in other words it was safe at the time to drive at the speed one was traveling at and you didn't put anyone at harm's way.

I did get a citation sometime ago for this at 5:30 AM where no one was around. No motorists and no pedestrians on street just you know who that said he used radar. (which I failed at the time to ask officer to see that:() This was noted on citation that radar was used.

I do not want to be or in any way appear to be challenging officer or make him think that I'm questioning his authority since that is what court is for. I'm sure that he would remember me and definitely make it a point to show up in court had it gone that far.

I do remember one time officer didn't show up so it was an automatic dismissed charge.:D

Oddly enough my V-1 detector never even went off.:eek: This is and has in the past been one very reliable detector. I was doubtful if he did really use radar but I wasn't going to have a debate with him on subject matter:eek:.

Anyway as it turns out I ended up going to traffic school since this was my first offense which would keep it off my record and not increase my auto insurance.

I was at one point going to contest this citation based on the above criteria but since this was a guaranteed way out of killing the speeding ticket and not going to court, I took the traffic school option BUT I still had to pay the hefty $300 something fine and traffic school fees:eek:

At least it saved my insurance rate from going up and saved my clean driving record.:D
 

HighwayMan

Super Secret Senior Member
A speed limit is a limit no matter what time of day or traffic conditions. It depends on the section of the law the violator is cited for.

And I wouldn't trust my driving record to a radar detector - it's no guarantee of anything.
 

Jim_bo

Member
OK, first things first... The survey shows a posted speed limit of 35, so you can argue that the officer made an error in writing you up for 47 in 30 versus 47 in 35. While that will NOT invalidate the citation, it will in fact allow you to argue for a fine reduction (if you are found guilty) from the (approx) $332 (for 16mph to 25mph over the limit) to (approx) $211 (for 1 mph to 15 mph).

Second, the fact that the survey is dates after May 20, 2004 means that (barring any mitigating factors) the speed limit should be set to the the 5mph increment nearest to the 85th percentile speed (of 39mph) thereby making it 40 mph. However, a further 5mph reduction in the speed limit is allowed by virtue of the notation regarding residential density (see CVC 40802(b)(1) & 40802(a)(2) V.C. Section 40802 - Speed Traps and CVC 515 V.C. Section 515 - Residence District ). Therefore, the speed limit reduction (from 40mph to 35mph) is justified.

Furthermore, and considering the fact that that particular stretch of roadway is considered a “local road” (residential district/density) a “speed trap” argument is not valid here...

You can scan it as a pdf file, upload it to a hosting site (like Image hosting, free photo sharing & video sharing at Photobucket), and post the link here. However, and since you posted the pertinent section which justifies the reduction, there is no need to do that.



Pursuant to CVC section 40802(c)(1)(D), the LASER unit must be calibrated within the 3 years PRIOR to the violation date. So assuming that the officer were to present the same calibration certificate that you received, you can move to exclude that piece of evidence on the grounds that a calibration after your alleged violation is irrelevant to your case and then you could argue that your case should be dismissed due to the lack of accurate measurement of your alleged speed.

There is a chance that the officer will present the correct certificate (one that is calibrated prior to your violation date) or he may even just reference a certificate that is “on file with the court”. You do have the right to request to see the certificate so that you can ascertain that the calibration was indeed conducted prior to you being cited, and if it is not, then you can follow through with the argument I suggested above.

In summary, the speed limit is justified; a speed trap argument is not applicable here (local road); you need to ensure that the LASER was calibrated within 3 years prior to the date you were cited; and lastly, if all else fails in the way of a dismissal, you can argue that your fine should be set on the basis of 12mph over the Prima Facie limit, rather than 17mph over the limit.

Let us now how it works out... Good luck!

IGB,

You have a couple of issues that need to be tweeked:

1. 40802(c)(1)(D) only applies if the survey is more than 5 years old. Since the date on the survey was in 2007, the section you quoted doesn't apply.

2. 40802 states:

a "local street or road" means a street or road
that primarily provides access to abutting residential property and
meets the following three conditions:
(A) Roadway width of not more than 40 feet.
(B) Not more than one-half of a mile of uninterrupted length.
Interruptions shall include official traffic control signals as
defined in Section 445.
(C) Not more than one traffic lane in each direction.
So, since the road is more than 40 ft wide, it is not a local road.

3. Since the state provided a copy of the calibration certificate in the discovery, the cop should not be allowed to introduce a different document in court. The OP should object to it if the cop tries. However, it may be of no consequence since the survey is less than 5 years old. But it is worth trying!!
 

DaviDas

Junior Member
Case won

Thanks for all your help I got Banned, I need to submit a TBWD and I will use the information you provided and I will post the outcome.
Submitted my TBWD and won the case thanks to this site and www.helpigotaticket.com, it appears the officer failed to respond to the TBWD. How long does it take to receive my money back from the court?
 
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