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  1. #1
    echz is offline Junior Member
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    Question NJ Speeding ticket with incorrect time -- Do I stand a chance?

    What is the name of your state? New Jersey.

    Hello all, and thanks for taking the time to read my post. On 11/25 I got a speeding ticket in NJ for 52/35. The time I got the ticket was 10:52 AM -- however, the citing officer circled PM instead of AM.

    I know this is going waaaaaaaay out on a limb, but can anyone offer me any insight as to if I have a chance of either a) Beating the ticket outright, or b) Getting the violation reduced to a non-point violation? (Paying a fine is ok by me, I just don't want 4 DMV points).

    Would such things as me being in Target (15 miles away) on security footage at 10:30 PM or something like the officer not being on duty at 10:52 PM help my case out, or will they just chalk it up to error and still nail me?

    Any help is appreciated -- Thanks!
  2. #2
    seniorjudge is offline Senior Member
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    The time of day is not an element of the offense so it is totally irrelevant.
    There are two rules for success:

    (1) Never tell everything you know.
  3. #3
    sukharev is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by seniorjudge
    The time of day is not an element of the offense so it is totally irrelevant.
    You are wrong, time of the day is part of the charge
  4. #4
    seniorjudge is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by sukharev
    You are wrong, time of the day is part of the charge
    Post the speeding statute in New Jersey that this person was charged under.
    There are two rules for success:

    (1) Never tell everything you know.
  5. #5
    sukharev is offline Member
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    I know what you are trying to prove, but the statute is the law, not the charge. The charge is: the particular driver in particular car was observed speeding (as defined by statute and speed limit) on a particular road at a particular time. Officer is going to testify to that matter, not citing the statute.
  6. #6
    sukharev is offline Member
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    And just to prove you are wrong, here is the post with reply by gawm:

    [url]http://forum.freeadvice.com/showthread.php?p=1174248#post1174248[/url]
  7. #7
    seniorjudge is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by sukharev
    And just to prove you are wrong, here is the post with reply by gawm:

    [url]http://forum.freeadvice.com/showthread.php?p=1174248#post1174248[/url]
    Quote Originally Posted by BelizeBreeze
    Actually, yes, you can contest it. However, the chances of a judge allowing this fact to stand as grounds for a dismissal are about 0.

    If you would like to see what will actually happen, let me know.
    **************...
    Ditto
    There are two rules for success:

    (1) Never tell everything you know.
  8. #8
    echz is offline Junior Member
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    Thanks for your posts guys...

    The offense I was charged with was 39:4-98 according to the ticket. According to the website that I can pay the ticket on, it's 39:4-98.19 (.19 apparently indicates 15-19 mph).

    Not that this helps anything, but that is the statute. My feeling is though that at 10:51 PM that officer wasn't on duty and therefore couldn't have written me a ticket. Also, I couldn't have been speeding at 10:51 PM because I wasn't even remotely close to where the summons was issued.

    I know my chances are on the extreme side of a longshot, I was just wondering if I had any chance from a "legal" standpoint rather than just a common sense one...
  9. #9
    seniorjudge is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by echz
    Thanks for your posts guys...

    The offense I was charged with was 39:4-98 according to the ticket. According to the website that I can pay the ticket on, it's 39:4-98.19 (.19 apparently indicates 15-19 mph).

    Not that this helps anything, but that is the statute. My feeling is though that at 10:51 PM that officer wasn't on duty and therefore couldn't have written me a ticket. Also, I couldn't have been speeding at 10:51 PM because I wasn't even remotely close to where the summons was issued.

    I know my chances are on the extreme side of a longshot, I was just wondering if I had any chance from a "legal" standpoint rather than just a common sense one...
    Tell us what time the ticket at the courthouse says. (Yours is just a courtesy copy.)
    There are two rules for success:

    (1) Never tell everything you know.
  10. #10
    echz is offline Junior Member
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    Here is a c/p from the website that I can pay the ticket on:

    Vehicle Make MERC

    Offense Number 39:4-98 .19
    Offense Date 11/25/2005
    Offense Time 10:51 PM
    Offense Location BROAD/MARTHS LA
    Offense Description SPEEDING (.19 INDICATES EXCEEDING BY 15-19 MPH)

    Court Date/Time 12/15/2005 06:00 PM


    So according to the court records, they also believe it was 10:51 PM....
  11. #11
    seniorjudge is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by echz
    Here is a c/p from the website that I can pay the ticket on:

    Vehicle Make MERC

    Offense Number 39:4-98 .19
    Offense Date 11/25/2005
    Offense Time 10:51 PM
    Offense Location BROAD/MARTHS LA
    Offense Description SPEEDING (.19 INDICATES EXCEEDING BY 15-19 MPH)

    Court Date/Time 12/15/2005 06:00 PM


    So according to the court records, they also believe it was 10:51 PM....

    [url]www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/injury/enforce/speedlaws501/toc/njspeed.pdf[/url]


    Here is the statute (among others) that you were charged under.

    See if the time of day is part of the offense.

    Tell us what happens.
    Last edited by seniorjudge; 12-02-2005 at 04:00 PM.
    There are two rules for success:

    (1) Never tell everything you know.
  12. #12
    sukharev is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by echz
    I know my chances are on the extreme side of a longshot, I was just wondering if I had any chance from a "legal" standpoint rather than just a common sense one...
    You don't have any chances from "legal" standpoint, as you were speeding. If you are honestly admitting it to us, you can do the same to the judge, and get the charges lowered, but probably not dismissed. What I was referring to is a technicality defense, which you can apply and see what happens.

    However, it is by no means endorsement of your actions, just an advice on how to proceed is you are going to fight it. The key is to wait until prosecution rests (having declared that you were speeding at 10:51 PM), then introduce evidence that you were indeed someplace else. Your claim would be that the officer does not remember the key detail of the case (yes, he just read it from the ticket), therefore his testimony should be dismissed. Ask for directed verdict based on lack of evidence. At this point, prosecutor has no ability to change the evidence presented (he rested his case), so the ticket or officer's testimony cannot be amended. If they try, motion for immediate dismissal (research online why). See if it flies (no guarantees).
  13. #13
    sukharev is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by seniorjudge
    [url]www.judiciary.state.nj.us/mcs/svbs_12-03/pt1_f_2_b.pdf[/url]


    Here is the statute (among others) that you were charged under.

    See if the time of day is part of the offense.

    Tell us what happens.
    Tell us why you posted a stupid pricelist

    You did not even listen, did you? It's not on the statute, yes, you did not have to try to prove it.

    Offense Time 10:51 PM.
    That was my point!
    Last edited by sukharev; 12-02-2005 at 04:00 PM.
  14. #14
    seniorjudge is offline Senior Member
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    You don't have any chances from "legal" standpoint, as you were speeding. If you are honestly admitting it to us, you can do the same to the judge, and get the charges lowered, but probably not dismissed. What I was referring to is a technicality defense, which you can apply and see what happens.

    I agree.

    See edit for correct site cite.
    There are two rules for success:

    (1) Never tell everything you know.
  15. #15
    You Are Guilty is offline Senior Member
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    As a practical matter, trying to use a "writing typo" as your sole defense to a moving violation more often than not infuriates the judge to the point where you do more harm to your case than good. They don't like it when attorneys pull these stunts and they like it even less from pro se folk.

    On the other hand, if you've got nothing else, may as well give it a shot.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tranquility
    Once you get to crazy land, it is only a guess on how to get out.

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