No insurance and no clue; Please advise.

[Adie24]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Oklahoma

I was rear-ended. The officer asked if I wanted to file a report and I almost declined (car was stolen earlier in the year so it would be difficult to discern any new damage to the car). The officer talked me in to it stating that there are witnesses that saw the guy on his cell phone slam into me.

During the process, I found out that the insurance card in the car was expired. I didn't think much about it as we have excellent credit, always pay bills on time, etc. The officer told me that all I had to do was fax the current card in to the court and the ticket would be dismissed. No problem...

The car is actually registered to my spouse. I truly believed the newest insurance card had been misplaced. After searching the house, I decided it would be easiest to call the insurance company. At that time, I discovered that the insurance on that car had been cancelled by mistake. Their system states that car was stolen (which it was and was returned a few days later) and that we no longer had it. I reinstated the insurance since we plan on continuing to use the car.

I am wondering what my best course of action would be. My spouse wants me to call the court house and attempt to pay the fine over the phone. I am not even sure if that is allowed under the new stricter law. My insurance agent says I should show up to court and explain the situation to the judge to get the fee lessened or possibly dropped. I don't even know what to plead. Yes, I should have been more aware of the insurance situation. We didn't cancel the policy and didn't notice that our insurance company did until now. They certainly did not notify us of the cancellation. I don't want to go to court and make the situation worse, having to pay the fine AND court costs. I also don't want to pay more than necessary or have my record tarnished. Any ideas or suggestions would be appreciated. Thank you for reading about my situation.

 

[The Occultist]

This is one of the few times that I will agree with the advice given by an insurance agent.

 

[I_Got_Banned]

This is in no way me suggesting that you are lying or making up a story but considering the vast array of "tales" that Judges hear on a daily basis, they tend to maybe, possibly, second guess even the ones that are true. In thinking about you going to court, telling the Judge exactly what happened and asking for leniency and a reduced fine or a dismissal, i would venture to guess that that Judge might ask you the following:

"Mr. Adie24, you claim to have excellent credit, always pay bills on time, etc....
That to me would suggest that you've got some good money management skill as well as as clear view of your finances, income, bills, payment due dates... etc.
An insurance premium and even for a good driver & one with excellent credit has got to be a couple of hundreds of dollars and yet you just happen to miss that the insurance premium for this one vehicle was not paid?
Also, i get the impression that you have more than one car?
And wouldn't you pay your insurance premium for all your vehicles at once?
How come you didn't notice that the amount was much lower than usual this time around?
Or if you sent in the same amount as last year's premium, then how come you insurance agent didn't call you to let you know that your check amount exceeds the premium amount?..."

This, again, is not me talking... This is the Hypothetical judge talking...

Just a thought!

 

[Adie24]

This is in no way me suggesting that you are lying or making up a story but considering the vast array of "tales" that Judges hear on a daily basis, they tend to maybe, possibly, second guess even the ones that are true. In thinking about you going to court, telling the Judge exactly what happened and asking for leniency and a reduced fine or a dismissal, i would venture to guess that that Judge might ask you the following:

"Mr. Adie24, you claim to have excellent credit, always pay bills on time, etc....
That to me would suggest that you've got some good money management skill as well as as clear view of your finances, income, bills, payment due dates... etc.
An insurance premium and even for a good driver & one with excellent credit has got to be a couple of hundreds of dollars and yet you just happen to miss that the insurance premium for this one vehicle was not paid?
Also, i get the impression that you have more than one car?
And wouldn't you pay your insurance premium for all your vehicles at once?
How come you didn't notice that the amount was much lower than usual this time around?
Or if you sent in the same amount as last year's premium, then how come you insurance agent didn't call you to let you know that your check amount exceeds the premium amount?..."

This, again, is not me talking... This is the Hypothetical judge talking...

Just a thought!

My biggest fear is that I will end up with a very strict judge that doesn't take ANY excuses since or make ANY exceptions. I can prove the excellent credit with a credit report. I can also show that we have other vehicles and the due dates vary. I can even explain the how and why the dropped insurance was missed. I am trying to get a letter from the insurance to back me up. However, if I end up with a strict judge that doesn't care what the circumstances are because they don't change the law, I could end up with more fines and fees.

I also wonder that the circumstances take a lot of explaining and I may be dismissed as a rambler trying to talk my way out of something.

Technically, I have a car, my spouse has a car, and we have a car together. When we got married, we went to add each other's names to our vehicles and found out that the state would charge us $45 each. We didn't have that kind of cash so we chose to keep the vehicles seperate. We also kept the same insurance with different due dates.
We purchased the third car late in March.

The tag on my spouse's car was due in March. You have to present proof of insurance to renew the tag. I did that. When we bought the third car and added it to the insurance, the agent told us to notify them when we sell one of the other vehicles. We were told we had 30 days to sell one of them or they would have to readjust the rates. In April, we received a bill stating we owed an additional $89 on the newest car. We thought it was because we hadn't sold one of the other vehicles.

In late July, my MIL died after a month long hospital stay. We have been tied up sorting out her affairs ever since. The insurance for my spouse's car would have been due in August. We never received a bill for it and frankly, we just didn't notice due to the overwhelming responsibilities and grief of the situation. Again, I can prove the death and the fact that my spouse is executor.

I just don't know that a judge will take the time to hear the whole story or that I will have the chance to tell it. With my luck, the judge will hear that the car belongs to my spouse and we will get double fines...me for driving and spouse for owning an uninsured car...in addition to court costs.

I really appreciate your detailed input, I Got Banned and am thankful for another opinion from The Occultist.

I am still not sure what would be in the best interest of our family.

 

[I_Got_Banned]

I really appreciate your detailed input, I Got Banned and am thankful for another opinion from The Occultist.

Uhm...

And I really appreciate you not taking any offense to any of my comments...

With that being said, let me state the obvious. Whether you get a hard nosed Judge or an easy going one is in no way a choice that you have. I can tell you that I have gone into court expecting a particular Judge only to have a substitute commissioner sitting on the bench the day my case is called.

Needless to say, traffic court will typically move fairly quickly; so you are correct in assuming that you might not get to make your full presentation. So go for the items that will possibly make the strongest impression....

I would suggest that you get the coverage reinstated on that particular vehicle ASAP. Take proof of that with you... Also present a letter from your carrier if you are able to get one (I doubt they will do this but if you can get them to assume part of the responsibility as to the confusion that occurred, you might fair much better). You might wanna also show that you have had coverage on the vehicle the entire time you've had it up until the time that the confusion occurred with it being stolen... etc.

Having done all that, you must keep in mind that from a "legal stand point" you were driving without coverage at the time that you were reear ended. So all your efforts might not score much, but it certainly is worth your best shot especially considering that fines for not having insurance can get pretty high.

Lastly, and with as costly as this might end up being, you might want to consult with a local attorney. As the Occultist will typically say, a local attorney usually has an idea on what the court wants to hear under various circumstances. Some attorneys offer a free or low cost first time consultation. If anything you might get a few tips on what to say and what to show.

One big huge thing that you have going for you is that you seem genuine and forward... That, regardless of how hard nosed a judge you may end up with, will prove to be a valuable contributing factor of how this entire matter plays out.

Good luck.

 

[cyjeff]

There is no one here that will tell you that there isn't an excellent chance you will still pay the fine.

However, I would get a letter from your insurance agent explaining the mix up to buttress your story.

People make mistakes... and this sounds like an honest one. That doesn't mean that people don't have to pay the penalties involved with honest mistakes... but that, sometimes, judges will take honesty into account.

 

[Adie24]

Here is a bit of an update:

I called the court house this morning as my spouse was just sure I should pay the fine, avoid the court appearance, and get it all out of the way. I gave a brief review of the situation to the clerk and was advised to see the judge. If I pay the fine, I admit guilt and my driver's license will be revoked immediately. I really need my license so I will be paying a visit to the judge.

My insurance agent has agreed to draft a letter. I am not sure what information will be included. There was mention of our continual good standing and the reinstated insurance on the car that was accidentally dropped. I am not sure if will include any admission of their part in dropping coverage. I will know more when I pick up the letter.

At this point, I am hoping that the judge will be able to show some mercy to me and that I can keep my license. If any of the fines or court costs are reduced, that will be a bonus.

Thanks again for the ideas and suggestions! I appreciate the reassurance from cyjeff that the judge may take honesty into account.

 

[Some Random Guy]

There was mention of our continual good standing and the reinstated insurance on the car that was accidentally dropped.

When the insurance was reinstated, was it reinstated on that day or was it retroactively reinstated back to when it was canceled? Did you pay for insurance premiums back to the day it was cannceled? If it was retroactive, then you should have no problem. Otherwise, you will have to rely on the mercy of the judge and the wording or your insurance agent's letter.

 

[I_Got_Banned]

My insurance agent has agreed to draft a letter. I am not sure what information will be included. There was mention of our continual good standing and the reinstated insurance on the car that was accidentally dropped. I am not sure if will include any admission of their part in dropping coverage. I will know more when I pick up the letter.

It might not be a bad idea to call him and mention that you'd like those statements included. The worst that can happen is he'll say "no"!
Just a thought!

I appreciate the reassurance from cyjeff that the judge may take honesty into account.

Hey, I said the same thing before cyjeff. . . And I get nothin'!!!!

 

[Maestro64]

Make sure you agent notarize any document he gives you, otherwise, it may not be acceptable as a valid document. Most all agents have notary working for them.

 

[Adie24]

When the insurance was reinstated, was it reinstated on that day or was it retroactively reinstated back to when it was canceled? Did you pay for insurance premiums back to the day it was cannceled? If it was retroactive, then you should have no problem. Otherwise, you will have to rely on the mercy of the judge and the wording or your insurance agent's letter.

I did not have any retroactive options...so, I will be relying on the mercy of the judge.

 

[Adie24]

It might not be a bad idea to call him and mention that you'd like those statements included. The worst that can happen is he'll say "no"!
Just a thought!

Hey, I said the same thing before cyjeff. . . And I get nothin'!!!!

I_Got_Banned, you have been very supportive and I appreciate your help. I am still trying to learn the tools on this forum. As you can see, I just figured out how to multi-quote. Is there a way for me to give rep points on this site?

I didn't get your suggestion until after I picked up the letter. I made the mistake of waiting until I got home to read it. It is a condensed version of the situation. It has some inaccurate dates and one misspelling. However, it does get the point across that I thought I had insurance on the car at the time of the accident.

Make sure you agent notarize any document he gives you, otherwise, it may not be acceptable as a valid document. Most all agents have notary working for them.

Ugh! Maestro64, where were you before I went to get the letter? It is not notarized. My agent probably would have thought I was being paranoid if I had asked for the notarized anyway. The agent is confident that the judge will show mercy and didn't think the letter is necessary. I was told that the judges are looking to lock up the "real" criminals not penalize honest mistakes. Then, I received a nice lecture instructing me to call the agent immediately for ALL accidents...BEFORE the police are called.

Anyway, I go to court first thing tomorrow. Feel free to pray that it goes smoothly or send some positive thoughts my way I am very thankful to all those that have responded to my post, especially I_Got_Banned for the continued support and detailed posts I will definitely post the outcome. I had tried searching the site for similar posts and found one or two with circumstances loosely related to mine. I was very disappointed to find that neither one of them came back and posted what they chose to do or the results of their action.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

 

[I_Got_Banned]

I did not have any retroactive options...so, I will be relying on the mercy of the judge.

I can see why especially with your getting rear ended... True that is not your fault however their liability and/or obligation to you as their insured would also depend upon the amount/type of coverage the other driver has.

At any rate, think +positive+... Hopefully you'll be pleasantly surprised.

 

[I_Got_Banned]

I_Got_Banned, you have been very supportive and I appreciate your help. I am still trying to learn the tools on this forum. As you can see, I just figured out how to multi-quote. Is there a way for me to give rep points on this site?

Oh stop it... you're making me blush!!!!

I was just joking with you and hence the "" that followed my complaint!!!

Not to worry... I honestly don't post on here expecting "thank you's", props or rep points... I do it as a learning experience and just for the satisfaction of making sure that someone out there didn't make the same stupid mistakes I made as they came across decision after decision in and out of traffic court...

I didn't get your suggestion until after I picked up the letter. I made the mistake of waiting until I got home to read it. It is a condensed version of the situation. It has some inaccurate dates and one misspelling. However, it does get the point across that I thought I had insurance on the car at the time of the accident.

For one, it was just a suggestion... Your agent really didn't have to provide you with anything...
And two, regardless of what the small details in it are (considering how little time the Judge will probably glance at it), the important thing is that it will make a good impression on the him/her by having an independent party back up your story.

 

[Adie24]

Oh stop it... you're making me blush!!!!

I was just joking with you and hence the "" that followed my complaint!!!

Not to worry... I honestly don't post on here expecting "thank you's", props or rep points... I do it as a learning experience and just for the satisfaction of making sure that someone out there didn't make the same stupid mistakes I made as they came across decision after decision in and out of traffic court...


For one, it was just a suggestion... Your agent really didn't have to provide you with anything...
And two, regardless of what the small details in it are (considering how little time the Judge will probably glance at it), the important thing is that it will make a good impression on the him/her by having an independent party back up your story.

I knew you were joking. I just wanted to be sure that you know that I really do appreciate your input.

By the way, you were EXACTLY right. The judge barely glanced at the letter. He didn't even ask if I have insurance now. He just said he would take my word for it and dismiss the citation without cost

Funny thing is that there were a ton of teenagers appearing today and he was VERY hard nosed with them. He really put them and some other adults on the spot. He took a couple of licenses and sent everyone of them back to their seat to "think of reasons the judge shouldn't take their license". Looks like he was saving up for a really big lecture to all of them at the end of the docket. He was giving mini lectures to each one and quoting injury/accident stats for each violation.

I did learn something new today...No matter what the traffic violation, you are better off appearing before the judge than just paying the fine. The judge announced that those pleading guilty or no contest would not have the citation on their driving record IF they pay the fine AND maintained a clean driving record for 90 days.