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  1. #1
    Sw3tflower is offline Member
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    Officer's estimated speed differs from radar

    California
    My 22 yr old daughter got a speeding ticket. She said she was going 80 MPH (new car). The officer said he estimated her speed at 85, but when he took a radar reading he found it said she was going 97 MPH. She is a Paramedic Intern and cannot afford a speeding ticket on her record.
    Since the officer is trained in estimating speed, and since they came very close to agreeing as to how fast she was going, can she use this as a bases for getting the judge to drop the radar speed to the 'mutually agreed' speed in order to be eligible for traffic school? She is guilty of speeding, admits it and agrees with the officer's estimation but disagrees with the radar reading. The critical 25 MPH and traffic school is at stake.
    Thankyou
  2. #2
    CdwJava is offline Senior Member
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    The over 25 MPH rule is generally a local court rule that prevents the clerk of the court from offering traffic school. However, the JUDGE can do so if she is otherwise eligible. Depending on what the specific code section is that she was cited for, she should be eligible for traffic school at the court's request if her record is clear.

    It might be possible to agree to a plea at the lower speed. When this can be done depends on the county. Some smaller counties will have an ADA at the courtroom who will accept plea deals at court. Other counties don't do that and she might have to ask the court clerk how she might be able to plea to a lesser speed.

    If the county of the offense has a traffic court website, some of these questions might be answered there.

    It might be best if she consults an attorney that specializes in speed defense.

    - Carl
    A Nor Cal Cop Sergeant

    "Make mine a double mocha ...
    And a croissant!"

    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkM-gDcmJeM
  3. #3
    Sw3tflower is offline Member
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    Written plea??? Trial???

    Hi
    Can she write and ask for a Trial by Written Declaration?
    It's a 3-4 hour drive to the court.
    With 12 hour firefighter/paramedic shifts, college, and work, she barely has time to sleep.
    We checked the web site and there was no info except they do not accept MC/Visa.
    She has no money to even LOOK at an attorney, much less ask something.
    Any advice is truely appreciated.
  4. #4
    cepe10 is offline Member
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    [url]http://www.ticketassassin.com/fight.html[/url]

    TBD seems like a good option to try, you can certainly state the facts that way as well as challenge the calibration fo the radar unit and the tuning forks used...
  5. #5
    Sw3tflower is offline Member
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    TBD due next week

    California
    My daughter's Trial by Written Declaration is due next week.
    She was advised by a friend to simply state either "Not Guilty" or "Not Guilty of Going 97 MPH" and give no other information.
    Although it's the truth, would a judge accept that?
    Also, is the citing CHP allowed to see her declaration before he writes his?
    Thank you
  6. #6
    CdwJava is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sw3tflower
    My daughter's Trial by Written Declaration is due next week.
    She was advised by a friend to simply state either "Not Guilty" or "Not Guilty of Going 97 MPH" and give no other information.
    Then she can expect to be found guilty.

    Although it's the truth, would a judge accept that?
    He'd accept it, but he'd almost certainly rule against her - he'd have no real choice.

    Also, is the citing CHP allowed to see her declaration before he writes his?
    No. They both write theirs in the blind.

    - Carl
    A Nor Cal Cop Sergeant

    "Make mine a double mocha ...
    And a croissant!"

    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkM-gDcmJeM
  7. #7
    Sw3tflower is offline Member
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    Cdw

    Thank you. Your reply was short, to the point and easily understood.
    Can you clarify one more thing?
    On the declaration she was pleading not guilty ...based on the ticket saying she was going 97 mph. If the ticket had indicated his VE, she would have pleaded guilty.
    She is emphatic she was going between 75 and 80 and no faster.
    How would she say that on the declaration?
    Does that make her guilty? Or not guilty?
    Guilty of speeding, but not at the speed indicated? Or not guilty of speeding at 97 mph?
    It is confusing because we based her initial plea on the radar speed.
    It is her first ticket.
    Thank you
  8. #8
    CdwJava is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sw3tflower
    Thank you. Your reply was short, to the point and easily understood.
    Can you clarify one more thing?
    On the declaration she was pleading not guilty ...based on the ticket saying she was going 97 mph. If the ticket had indicated his VE, she would have pleaded guilty.
    She is emphatic she was going between 75 and 80 and no faster.
    How would she say that on the declaration?
    It is up to her, but I would write just that. However, keep in mind that by doing so she is admitting to excessive speed, and likely admitting to the same offense just at a lesser speed.

    Does that make her guilty? Or not guilty?
    Depending on what she was charged with, she is still guilty.

    If the officer testifies as to his original estimated speed, then the court would likely go with that - especially if she admits to going about 80. In either case, she is still guilty.

    - Carl
    A Nor Cal Cop Sergeant

    "Make mine a double mocha ...
    And a croissant!"

    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkM-gDcmJeM
  9. #9
    Sw3tflower is offline Member
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    Guilty in Calif US 50

    She was cited for 22349(a)**************it originally said 22350 but he wrote over the 50 changing it to 49.
    The PF says 65.
    Does 22349 differ significantly from 22350? Does it make any difference to how we word the declaration?
    We are basically concerned because driving 15mph compared to 27mph over the limit makes a difference on her (up to now) clean record. (plus it's the truth)
    Thank you for taking the time to clarify things for us.
  10. #10
    CdwJava is offline Senior Member
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    22349 is for exceeding the maximum limit of 65 MPH and 22350 is the basic speed law. The speed will effect the fine. The difference in speed (15 vs. 27) under either section could mean the difference between $99 and $350 pursuant to the Uniform Bail Schedule's Fixed Penalty Schedule for Traffic Infractions. The 22349 section is easier to prosecute as it covers exceeding a statutory speed not a presumptive safe speed.

    All speeds are only 1 point on her license.

    - Carl
    A Nor Cal Cop Sergeant

    "Make mine a double mocha ...
    And a croissant!"

    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkM-gDcmJeM
  11. #11
    Sw3tflower is offline Member
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    Final judgement

    We filed a Declaration and my daughter was found Guilty of speeding (97mph) and refused Traffic School.
    We then went to court.
    She pled guilty, apologized and stated briefly the impact this ticket would have on her future career as a Paramedic/Firefighter. She was an intern at a fire station at the time.
    The judge said although he has the power to intercede and overturn a ruling, he has very seldom used that power.
    However, if ever there was a case that deserved it, in his opinion this was it, and he choose to use it.
    He dismissed her case, removed it from her record and wished he well in her future career.
  12. #12
    CdwJava is offline Senior Member
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    Good for her!

    Hopefully she has since learned to slow down ... if she works as a paramedic, she will soon learn the end result of collisions and speed - in gruesome detail. Most fire responses are to medical aids, and many are for collisions.

    - Carl
    A Nor Cal Cop Sergeant

    "Make mine a double mocha ...
    And a croissant!"

    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkM-gDcmJeM
  13. #13
    CourtClerk is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sw3tflower View Post
    California
    My daughter's Trial by Written Declaration is due next week.
    She was advised by a friend to simply state either "Not Guilty" or "Not Guilty of Going 97 MPH" and give no other information.
    That friend is an idiot. I used to work our trial by declaration desk...i used to see them all the time go up to the judge just like that....and every last one of them came down with a guilty finding.

    In the end, your daughter lucked out. Good for her, tell her to be careful next time, I'm on the road with my kids... Good luck in her future career.
    Last edited by CourtClerk; 06-19-2007 at 07:32 PM.
  14. #14
    Sw3tflower is offline Member
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    Lession Learned

    She has learned.
    Yes, she has answered 911 calls for accidents and has pried people out of the bent metal who were screaming in pain....as well as a few silent ones.
    She doesn't speed now and doesn't care about 'keeping up with the flow of traffic', especially if it means going 80 mph.
    She does get a thrill when the chief drives up curbs, over center dividers, goes the wrong way on one way streets and having kids wave at her when answering calls! She said, contrary to what people think, when she is going on a call the fire engines don't go much over the speed limit either.
    I am grateful the judge gave her another chance and so is she.
  15. #15
    CdwJava is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sw3tflower
    She said, contrary to what people think, when she is going on a call the fire engines don't go much over the speed limit either.
    Well, there IS a practical reason for this: Fire Engines are slow behemoths that neither accelerate nor decelerate with ease, and they do not stop on a dime. Because of this, they rarely roll with breakneck speed, and very often don't go much beyond 60 even all out on the freeway. Just tonight I beat an engine who had a head start on me to a rollover crash on the freeway - he was tearing along at about 60 MPH ... I was rolling at 90.

    Hopefully there will one day be a position for her. At least in CA open fire positions are rare, and are highly coveted and competition can be fierce. I know many people that work on ambulances or as volunteers for years before they can get picked up by a fire department. It's tough.

    - Carl
    A Nor Cal Cop Sergeant

    "Make mine a double mocha ...
    And a croissant!"

    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkM-gDcmJeM

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