PA 3331-C Disregard Traffic Devices

[jtedwards]

What is the name of your state? Pennsylvania

I was ticketed one week ago for Required Position and Method of Turning while making a left turn coming out of a McDonalds parking lot. Two signs depicting the prohibition were not well-lit. Is there a grounds for fighting this citation?

I also believe the officer in question to be laying a trap for the end-of-the-month quota, in the expectation others would make this mistake leaving the same area. Are there motions for procuring officer ticket-histories? Can I beat this by showing the citation was part of a pattern of ticket-writing to meet quota?

Thank You

[trieroffact]

The traffic control devices have to meet MUTCD guidelines (location, size, ect.) to be enforcable...

[url]http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/HTM/2003r1/html-index.htm[/url]

§ 212.2. Adoption of Federal standards.

(a) General provisions. Consistent with the authority contained in 75 Pa.C.S. § § 6103(c) and 6121 (relating to promulgation of rules and regulations by the Department; and uniform system of traffic-control devices), the Department hereby adopts the MUTCD, as published by the Federal Highway Administration. The MUTCD is adopted in its totality except where this chapter clearly indicates that it is not being adopted, or that additional warrants or criteria are being provided.


You are correct quotas are a big part of law enforcement in PA and elsewhere (however the power's that be now use different terminology to get around them Thus continuing to use them even though they are illegal.

[url]http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/05/587.asp[/url]

Here is the code section you are charged with...

§ 3331. Required position and method of turning.
(a) Right turn.--The driver of a vehicle intending to turn right shall approach the turn and
make the turn as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway.
(b) Left turn.--The driver of a vehicle intending to turn left shall approach the turn in the
extreme left-hand lane lawfully available to traffic moving in the direction of travel of the vehicle.
Whenever practicable, the left turn shall be made to the left of the center of the intersection and so as
to leave the intersection or location in the extreme left-hand lane lawfully available to traffic moving
in the same direction as the vehicle on the roadway being entered.
(c) Compliance with traffic-control devices.--The department and local authorities on
highways under their respective jurisdictions may cause official traffic-control devices to be placed and thereby require and direct that a different course from that specified in this section be traveled by turning vehicles and when the devices are so placed no driver shall turn a vehicle other than as directed and required by the devices.

[BelizeBreeze]

Originally Posted by jtedwards

What is the name of your state? Pennsylvania

I was ticketed one week ago for Required Position and Method of Turning while making a left turn coming out of a McDonalds parking lot. Two signs depicting the prohibition were not well-lit. Is there a grounds for fighting this citation?

That depends entirely on where the signs are located and the specific facts regarding their position.

I also believe the officer in question to be laying a trap for the end-of-the-month quota, in the expectation others would make this mistake leaving the same area. Are there motions for procuring officer ticket-histories? Can I beat this by showing the citation was part of a pattern of ticket-writing to meet quota?

Thank You

you sound like a fool but please use such a defense when you go to court.

[jtedwards]

Thanks for the reply, Trier!

I am checking the regs for MUTCD to see if the signs up here comply with their guidelines.

I have just learned that my brother is good friends with many of the local cops in this town (he ran a small business here and got to meet many of them over the years). The whole ticket quota thing is very real, he averred. He confirmed that the turn outside the McDonalds is a favorite trap for out-of-towners like myself and it becomes a 'ticket mill' on weekends for the township police.

With that in mind, is there a way to otherwise file a nuisance motion with the traffic court, whereby I encourage the officer to not show up? Certainly there must be some task the Defense could require that'd be troublesome enough to the arresting officer that he might simply choose to not show up at trial.

Thanks!

[Curt581]

Originally Posted by jtedwards

With that in mind, is there a way to otherwise file a nuisance motion with the traffic court, whereby I encourage the officer to not show up? Certainly there must be some task the Defense could require that'd be troublesome enough to the arresting officer that he might simply choose to not show up at trial.

Thanks!

"Troublesome task"?

Like what? What "troublesome task" do you think a defense attorney can assign a police officer to do? What makes you think a defense attorney can assign a police officer to do anything ?

I love reading nonsense like this. Almost as much as I love seeing some idiot try to pull something this in court. You guys just keep thinking up new and interesting ways to make yourselves look foolish.

For my own part... I've stopped arguing with the "Anti-Police" crowd. Ceepage, Trierofpatience, Sukie, JimmyJoeBob and all the rest. I've decided to root for those guys. You're all making my job easier.... and MUCH more entertaining.

[jtedwards]

Originally Posted by Curt581

"Troublesome task"?

Like what? What "troublesome task" do you think a defense attorney can assign a police officer to do? What makes you think a defense attorney can assign a police officer to do anything ?

I love reading nonsense like this. Almost as much as I love seeing some idiot try to pull something this in court. You guys just keep thinking up new and interesting ways to make yourselves look foolish.

For my own part... I've stopped arguing with the "Anti-Police" crowd. Ceepage, Trierofpatience, Sukie, JimmyJoeBob and all the rest. I've decided to root for those guys. You're all making my job easier.... and MUCH more entertaining.

Wow, you know, you're really a brilliant mind! Thanks for all the help.

For anyone legitimate who might have something to add, I'm referring to a motion which might require the prosecution to provide something in court from the officer (like his arrest record?) at the time of the hearing. One would then hope the required action be nuisance enough that the officer might simply not bother to attend the hearing - thus insuring it's dismissal.

And Curt, you needn't worry. Your response is ample proof that you are a snide "pro-cop" apologist. As such, my initial query was never directed toward the likes of you.

[racer72]

You want to know a little secret? Most police officers that work traffic control have the courts schedule the days that they need to appear around their schedule. An officer friend of mine schedules his court days about every other Thursday, it coincides with his 4 day weekends, it allows him to get an early start to his weekend. Also, an officer could face disciplinary action for not providing information requested by the DA's office or by subpeona. Cops hate being disciplined. Your little pipe dream is proof you have absolutely no idea how the courts work. The officer friend of mine loves reading posts like yours, it always gives him a good laugh. I also doubt an attorney would resort to any kind of "trickery" to get a citation dismissed, if he was to be caught his reputation would be ruined and he would lose all credibility in court and with his peers.

[jtedwards]

Originally Posted by racer72

You want to know a little secret? Most police officers that work traffic control have the courts schedule the days that they need to appear around their schedule. An officer friend of mine schedules his court days about every other Thursday, it coincides with his 4 day weekends, it allows him to get an early start to his weekend. Also, an officer could face disciplinary action for not providing information requested by the DA's office or by subpeona. Cops hate being disciplined. Your little pipe dream is proof you have absolutely no idea how the courts work. The officer friend of mine loves reading posts like yours, it always gives him a good laugh. I also doubt an attorney would resort to any kind of "trickery" to get a citation dismissed, if he was to be caught his reputation would be ruined and he would lose all credibility in court and with his peers.

And, I have gone into court and beaten a speeding ticket (two years ago) by using the techniques in Case Dismissed. Employing 'trial by ambush', I beat my own ticket by challenging the calibration of the cop's radar unit.

So I know you can beat these crooked bloodsuckers at their own game. You just have to harass them and make their experience in court as bad as they make yours on the road.

[AlanShore]

Originally Posted by jtedwards

And, I have gone into court and beaten a speeding ticket (two years ago) by using the techniques in Case Dismissed. Employing 'trial by ambush', I beat my own ticket by challenging the calibration of the cop's radar unit.

So I know you can beat these crooked bloodsuckers at their own game. You just have to harass them and make their experience in court as bad as they make yours on the road.

So let me get this straight. You made an illegal turn and got a ticket! What a shocker! And your mad at the cop....your the idiot. So you made a mistake and he didn't let you off what a bad police man. Your not getting an help on this forum- 1. because there is no legal grounds for a defense under the stupid ideas in which you want to use, 2. you insult the contributors of this forum. EVERYTHING RACER SAID ABOVE IS ACCURATE. Attacking the cops is not right either. I don’t talk like that every time I get a ticket. You need to grow up kid. 99.999% of cops aren’t crooked. Being pulled over isn’t suppose to be nice you broke the law and the cop has to approach and deal with someone he has no clue who it is. Many cops have been shot and killed when pulling people over for little things like illegal turns. Grow up kid.

[Curt581]

Originally Posted by jtedwards

I'm referring to a motion which might require the prosecution to provide something in court from the officer (like his arrest record?) at the time of the hearing. One would then hope the required action be nuisance enough that the officer might simply not bother to attend the hearing - thus insuring it's dismissal.

What relevance does the officer's arrest record have to do with whether or not you violated a traffic sign?

You can file any motion you want. File a motion for discovery demanding the officer's entire Personel Record, his complete arrest record, and a complete list of all traffic citations written through out his entire career. Hell, why not ask for his sick-leave record?

See if the judge grants that motion. Let us know what happens.

[cepe10]

Traffic ticket quota systems have been illegal in PA since 1981. However as you have found out the agencies continue to violate the law of the land and do so because IMO they are never prosecuted. The more honest law enforcement officers face retribution as whistleblowers...

You can try to obtain the records through the PA open records act:
[url]http://www.lgc.state.pa.us/deskbook06/Issues_Citizens_Rights_01_Pa_Open_Records.pdf[/url]

They have 10 days to provide those records: Right-to-Know Law, Sections 3.3, 3.4

Note the agency may also violate this law as well by not providing the records. At which point the burden is on you to file civil suit as the district attorney's office will most likely ignore this violation of the law of the land as well....