PA Traffic Ticket Help

[munchy]

On Sunday, July 12, While heading westbound on the PA turnpike toward Norristown exit 333, I was pulled over and given a speeding ticket. To me, this is without a doubt the most bizarre chain of pulling over/being given a speeding ticket events I have ever experienced. I was initially planning on fighting the ticket, but after doing some research, I'm not sure I can win this battle. So let me tell the story, and then you can dispense some advice if I should actually bother to fight it or not. Keep in mind while reading this, that I live in NJ, and I was driving in PA.

The incident in question happened on a perfect weather day, with 3 lanes heading westbound and a fair amount of traffic on the road. (Not heavy, not light.) The speed limit said 65 MPH and I had my cruise control set to 69, when I saw the PA state trooper about 7 cars ahead of me. I did not alter my speed right away, in fact, most people, you'll find, slow down BELOW the speed limit when they see the police. As the son of a cop, my father told me that as long as I am within the law, the police will not bother me. So I did have to slow down a few times to account for the drivers that slowed down to 55 and below on account of the trooper's presence, but I went about passing these cars, one by one, until I was behind the trooper. This took roughly 3-4 minutes, and spanned about 3 miles or so. At no time did I ever eclipse 69 MPH. So now I am behind the trooper. At this time he is going about 65 MPH. I slow down to 65, hit the cruise control, and keep a safe following distance. Or at least I try. Because I notice that now, I am gaining on him. He has slowed down to about 60/61 MPH. OK, so I slow down, and resume my safe following distance. But now he's sped up. To about 70. So, I go 70, hit cruise, and maintain my safe following distance.

Guess what happens next - he slows down again! 61/62 MPH. Now I'm a little annoyed. Nothing bothers me more than trying to navigate a highway with some schmuck driving erratically in front of me. I had never thought that the schmuck would be a state trooper. I know it's an unwritten rule that you don't pass a cop (given that most people fear authority) but I had made up my mind that the only way I was going to resume a constant speed and a safe following distance was to pass him. I was afraid that if I tried to move into the right lane, that he would get me for passing him on the right, so I chose to move into the left lane. I *VERY SLOWLY* crept up to 70 MPH and hit cruise control. Passing him took forever. I gained about a foot every 10 seconds, and in the meantime, there was this tool crawling up my ass to get past me. But I would not budge over 70, because I knew that I would be putting myself in jeopardy to get a ticket.

Up to this point you've no doubt been saying to yourself "You're going 70 in a 65. You're speeding! You are already in jeopardy of getting a ticket." Here's where the PA statutes differ from most states. I lived in PA from '03 to '07, and as someone formerly licensed in the state of PA, I know (and I got the driver manual to back me up) that the first level of points given for speeding is 6-10 miles per hour over the speed limit. While going 70 in a 65 is technically speeding, the state lists no number of points for driving 1-5 MPH over. In my interpretation of the law, that means you can go up to 5 MPH over the speed limit with no infraction or points. Getting back to the incident, the trooper flipped on his "pull over" lights when my front end was about 7 feet in front of his. He then slowed down and got behind me to signify that it was indeed me whom he was pulling over. Note: This is the first time in this journey that the PA State Trooper was BEHIND me.

He came to my car and asked for my license, registration, and proof of insurance. I keep the latter two documents in the glove box. Behind my registration card is my PBA card which my dad gives me every year in case I need it. I did not attempt to hand it to the trooper, but he saw it in my hand and said, "License, registration, proof of insurance only!" Aight. It was then that he became effusive as to why I was being pulled over. He started with "I've been tracking you for about 5 miles. I was going 75 MPH and I noticed you were slowly gaining on me. Then you passed me going 72 MPH. That's why I pulled you over." I was about to explain that I had my cruise control on 70. He waved me off before I even got to open my mouth. I gave him the three documents and he returned to his car, writing up my ticket. He returned to my vehicle about 15 minutes later, explained the state statute that I had broken and asked me to sign the ticket. Here's where the officer decided to take an attitude with me. I asked him, "Does signing the ticket constitute admission of guilt?" He replied, "If you don't want to sign it, just refuse to sign, I'll write refused to sign" on it, hand you your yellow copy, and you can be on your way." I said to him, "I'll be happy to sign it, as long as I'm not admitting guilt." This is when he snatched it (not took it, snatched it, in an impatient and hostile manner) from my hand, wrote "refused to sign" on it, handed me the yellow copy, and left.

Now there are 4 problems as I see with this ticket:

1) I was not going 72 miles an hour at any point in this journey! I had cruise control set to 70 and, in addition, I have a digital dash, not a needle thing, and that dashboard said 70 on it in big LED display numbers. I can see only two reasons why he would have said I was going 72. 1) He, believing that I was going above 75 at one point (because he said I was slowly gaining on him when he was going 75) wanted to give me a ticket. But when he used his radar gun, he saw I was going 70 and couldn't give me a ticket on that, so he decided 70 should become 72, and now I can get a ticket for having the
effrontery to pass him. 2) Perhaps the radar was off and he actually thought I was going 72. The ticket specifies that the equipment was last calibrated on February 19, 2009. Is it possible that the equipment could be off 2 MPH after 5 months? I suppose. One might ask how I know it wasn't my odometer that was faulty. I know because I had passed through not one, not two, but three EZPass toll booths to get to that part of the Penna TPKE, and as I compared my speed with the speed on the "your speed is" sign that is posted at every EZPass tollbooth, each time it was accurate. Now I have never contested a ticket in court, but I have a feeling that insinuating that the officer is lying (which I think is the more likely scenario) is not going to win me points with the judge (although it might get me points on my license.) I'd probably be better off with the miscalibration angle. I just simply don't know if 2 MPH in 5 months is common or even feasible.

2) I don't see how I could have gained on his car if he was going 75 since I was doing 69 MPH on cruise control at the time. It stands to reason that if I am going 69 and he is going 75, I cannot possibly gain on him. But this fact is completely irrelevant since I am not being ticketed for going over 75 MPH. You see, if it is the case that he was going 75 and I was slowly gaining on him, then my ticket should say that I was going 76 MPH or more. It does not say that. It says 72. So all of that "I was going 75 MPH for tracking purposes and watching you slowly gain on me" has no context for the ticket except to establish that since in his mind, I was going over 75, I deserved a ticket, even though he hadn't clocked my speed until I tried to pass him.

3) I never refused to sign the ticket! He is making me look uncooperative! ALL HE HAD TO DO WAS ANSWER THE QUESTION, YES OR NO! I didn't need a song and dance. If he would have said "No" then I would have signed it. If he had said yes, THEN I would have refused to sign it. His hostility was unnecessary and quite frankly, it doesn't represent that motto "to protect and to serve" which is supposed to be the motto of the police.

4) THE IDIOT GOT THE DATE WRONG! He wrote that it was Sunday but he also wrote July 13. It was the 12th! Doesn't this guy have a calendar or someone he could call to ask what day it is? there's no excuse for this sloppy ticket writing.

The question is, "should I fight the ticket?" Here's what I am up against:

a) I am going to say that I was speeding. It is a fact and I was and I suck at lying so I'm not even goiung to try. But once again, there is no penalty in PA for going up to 5 MPH over the speed limit. So while I was speeding, I was not doing so in any way that by PA state law I could incur a citation for speeding. My wife tells me that just by admitting that I was speeding I am admitting that I broke the law. Fine then, give me the ticket and the requisite number of points in PA for going 5 MPH over the speed limit. OH, there ISN'T one!!

b) The problem is the Trooper says I was going 72. It's not true, but isn't the judge typically going to side with the trooper? He says I went 72 and I say I didn't. Sorry guy. The fact is, you'd have to be a COMPLETE MORON to pass, knowingly, a state trooper by exceeding the speed limit by 6 or more miles an hour, because you're just asking for a ticket. I didn't *WANT* a ticket! I wanted to pass the trooper because his erratic speed was making it difficult for me to maintain a safe following distance. I didn't know he was "tracking" me as he says. And quite frankly, by vacillating between 60 and 70 MPH, it
seems to me that he was trying to goad me into making a traffic mistake so he could ticket me. I thought the idea behind traffic enforcement was prevention, not causing people to make infractions that result in tickets.
Should I bother paying the tolls and spending the gas and time going into Westmoreland county, PA, about 50 miles from my house, where I am going to say I was speeding, to contest this thing?

 

[Yertle8]

1. Your odometer is not calibrated periodically. EZ Pass digital boards are not calibrated periodically. These are not admissible in court. The cop's radar is. Wanna know why?

2. You may or may not have been gaining on him when he was or was not doing 75. That he asserts it and you deny it doesn't matter, because that's not what you were ticketed for. Here's a possible scenerio: He's going 75 and sees, or thinks he sees, you gaining on him. He slows down to 70 to see if you pass him, and you do, at 72. He tickets you. I know you say that didn't happen, but he does, and he has radar.

3. You not signing the ticket has no bearing one way or the other. It is not an admission of guilt, it's just to say that you received it. Who knows why he didn't feel like explaining that, but he didn't. It doesn't impact you positively or negatively that the ticket says refused to sign - you aren't forced to.

4. An incorrect date won't get you out of a ticket.

a. Your wife is right, you should listen to her. Admitting you were speeding is admitting you broke the law. I don't know where you came up with this "I can go over the speed limit by 5 mph and there is no punishment" thing. Completely wrong. There may be no points assessed by the DMV, but going 1 mph over the posted limit is against the law in PA.

b. Yeah, the judge will side with the trooper as he has you with radar and you have nothing to disprove that and you're planning on admitting to guilt. If I were you I wouldn't bother driving 50 miles out of state to admit guilt and pay a fine. I'd just mail the fine from home.

 

[munchy]

Where I got it from

If you look at the point system fact sheet for PA here:
http://www.dmv.state.pa.us/pdotforms/fact_sheets/pub472.pdf

It lists no penalty for going between 1-5 MPH over the speed limit. That led me to believe that you had a 5 MPH buffer. Perhaps this is a serious misinterpretation on my part. Now if I could do some damage control. Do you think that I could explain my misinterpretation, ask if I could pay the fine but not get the points, and he'll never catch me speeding there ever again?

Thanks.

P.S. I would like to know why. (The question you posed in #1.)

 

[efflandt]

Are your tires any larger in diameter that factory tires for your vehicle (could easily account for 3-5 mph faster than 70 mph on speedometer)? Have you ever set your cruise control at 60 mph to see if it is exactly a minute between mile markers? Or have you compared your speedometer to a GPS (usually accurate to within 1 mph or less)?

The accuracy of digital equipment can sometimes be misleading. I have 2 identical electronic thermometers that indicate tenths of a °F. Yet they read 2-3 °F different from each other when right next to each other.

The police equipment is calibrated. Have you ever had your speedometer calibrated or compared it with anything of known accuracy?

 

[Maestro64]

First, he did not use radar, moving radar is not allowed in PA, so that discussion is not relevant for your ticket, the only way he determined your speed was using his own speedometer.

Since we know he used his speedometer in PA he is required to pace you for 3/10 of a mile. Next did he record the method used to obtain your speed, he should indicated pace, and if we did he should have also recorded on the ticket the serial number or in this case the VIN of his patrol car, and the date it was last calibrate which would have had to been in the last 60 days as required by PA law. He also required to listed the calibration station of at which his speedometer was last calibrated at.

Those are the rules in PA.

Next in PA you do not have to sign the ticket, many time they just write issued on the ticket where your signature goes, because the are not interesting in having a road side discussion with you about signing the ticket.

You are correct in PA there is a buffer at which you can not get a ticket based on any equipment used to measure speed, however, PA is an absolute speed limit state which means even one MPH over is a ticket. What you are reading is PA assigns no points from 1-5 over. However, here is a very important point about PA, they are not allow to write a ticket unless your over 6 MPH over the speed limit, thus the reason he wrote 72. If he wrote 70 the ticket would be tossed unless you admitted in court you were doing 70 MPH, so do not admit anything, it is not your job to help them convict you.

Depending on what is written on the ticket this could be pretty easy to win. but you will have to get all your facts together and all the laws that govern speeding in PA.

Remember it is not your job to prove your speedometer is correct, all of this discussion is irrelevant since the officer did not use your speedometer to determine your speed. The police officer has that burden to prove his was correct and PA has very strict rule around this which I highlighted above, these all called out in the PA vehicle codes and in court case.

I know that stretch of the turnpike and normal speed is 75 in the area, they been cracking down due to all the construction in that area. Generally they usually do not ticket unless your 76MPH.

 

[munchy]

What the ticket says

24. Charge is Maximum Speed Limits
25. Nature of Offense: 72 in a 65. His checked method is "clocked" NOT radar.
26. Vehicle Code Title 75 Section 3362 Subsection A1.1

Here is his description: "Sped Pass Marked Patrol L/L (left lane)" Steady gain with patrol at 75 Patrol Merged M/L vehicle merged to M/L then back to L/L passing patrol.

He has "equipment serial number, station equip tested, and the date equipment tested (it was 2/16/09) so he did use something - are you sure it was just the odometer? Do they test that?

 

[Maestro64]

If he clocked you it was with VASCAR or a stopwatch, which I doubt since PSP do not use those methods since they are allowed to use radar. So he had to really pace your with is speedometer and that is allowed. I will correct what I said above, speedometers are only required to be cal once a year not 60 days like everything else. The only catch on this was if the tires were changed, you can go after that, he would have to prove the tires were not change since February so he would have to have the maintenance records for his car.

Here is the specific PA law on that too look in section 3368 of this documents, specifically subsection (b)

http://www.dot3.state.pa.us/pdotforms/vehicle_code/chapter33.pdf

This section also talks about having to pace your for 3/10 of a mile.

IF you do your research and show the court the officer failed to meet the requirements in the law this is an easily winnable ticket.

If he claims to have used Radar, ask him if moving radar is approve for use in PA and ask him to show you where on this approval list has PennDOT approved it. Only Stationary radar is allowed in PA.

PA Bulletin, Doc. No. 08-2355

I may also be wrong on the 6 MPH buffer it may not to apply to pacing, it appears it only apply to using timing devices and Radar. But might be worth a try, the court may not be that familiar with the law.

 

[munchy]

Wow

That's pretty awesome. I looked at the statute and it says radar within one year, but all others within 60 days. Vascar is a choice but it is not checked. It says "Clocked" which - well I have no idea specifically what that means. Thanks for your help, I do appreciate it.

One other question. If I'm pleading not guilty, why do I have to send the money in for the ticket? Shouldn't I pay that if I'm actually found guilty?

 

[Maestro64]

I would say he should have not check clocked, clocked means he used a stopwatch, he should have checked other if he paced you.

Also, in court he is required to prove the speedometer was calibrated when he said, with an original copy of the cert, and he had to show using the bulletin listed above the test station was approved by the state. Usually the PSP are pretty good with the paper work, but they must be original no copies allowed, there is PA case law on the subject.

Yes you pay up front, it is a bond to make sure you show.

 

[Yertle8]

If you look at the point system fact sheet for PA here:
http://www.dmv.state.pa.us/pdotforms/fact_sheets/pub472.pdf

It lists no penalty for going between 1-5 MPH over the speed limit. That led me to believe that you had a 5 MPH buffer. Perhaps this is a serious misinterpretation on my part. Now if I could do some damage control. Do you think that I could explain my misinterpretation, ask if I could pay the fine but not get the points, and he'll never catch me speeding there ever again?

Thanks.

P.S. I would like to know why. (The question you posed in #1.)

The answer is because it is calibrated. Although I'm apparently mistaken about the use of radar. His spedometer is calibrated.

If there are no points you wouldn't get them, and I don't know if PennDOT can assess points on a NJ license anyway. They might be able to, I don't know.

They always make you pay the fine if you're pleading not guilty and you get the money back if you win. I know it seems backward, I don't like it either. I guess it's a way of making sure you pay if you lose.

 

[JustAPal00]

Imagine how many people would plead not guilty and how clogged the courts would be if pleading not guilty got you several more weeks to pay the fine.