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Passing a school bus

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trialbyfire

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? California

I was traveling in a group of cars and was stopped by a group of officers after passing a school bus. The bus was part of a sting operation and was posted in this location solely for the purpose of issuing tickets. It was not loading or unloading students and my reading of CVC 22454(a) leads me to believe that the signs must be posted, lights on, "...that is stopped for the purpose of loading or unloading any schoolchildren and displays a flashing red light signal and stop signal arm..." So that if as in this case it was simply used as bait and not loading or unloading schoolchildren the ticket can be successfully challenged. Any one have any ideas
 


Antigone*

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? California

I was traveling in a group of cars and was stopped by a group of officers after passing a school bus. The bus was part of a sting operation and was posted in this location solely for the purpose of issuing tickets. It was not loading or unloading students and my reading of CVC 22454(a) leads me to believe that the signs must be posted, lights on, "...that is stopped for the purpose of loading or unloading any schoolchildren and displays a flashing red light signal and stop signal arm..." So that if as in this case it was simply used as bait and not loading or unloading schoolchildren the ticket can be successfully challenged. Any one have any ideas
So were the lights flashing and was the "stop" arm extended when you passed?
 
Sounds like entrapment to me. Plus , there MUST actually be school children being transported. That's the purpose of the law, to protect children.

No children = no penalty

Does not matter about lights, signs etc .... no children = not guilty

Maybe cops should learn a little bit about the law; of course, no ethics training for them....so it would not matter.
 

trialbyfire

Junior Member
Response

As to the first question. I do not know if the lights and sign were extended there was a slight curve and two suv's in front of me that made it difficult to see I followed other vehicles past the bus.
This was a four lane roadway two lanes in each direction. As to the "sting" aspect. There were two patrol cars and three motorcycle cars. The bus was empty with the exception of the driver and remained at the location for several minutes. It only left after being contacted by one of the officers who was using a walkie-talkie. The officers pulled over five cars at one time and the officer that issued my ticket indicated that they were conducting the enforcement as a result of community complaints.
 

HighwayMan

Super Secret Senior Member
I do not know if the lights and sign were extended there was a slight curve and two suv's in front of me that made it difficult to see I followed other vehicles past the bus.
I cannot imagine how a curve or a few SUVs in front of you would have blocked your view of the overhead red flashing lights on the bus. The bus is much higher and those lights should have been clearly visible.


...after being contacted by one of the officers who was using a walkie-talkie.
Sounds like you're saying the officer contacted the bus driver. That is a pretty big assumption.
 

HighwayMan

Super Secret Senior Member
...stopped for the purpose of loading or unloading any schoolchildren...

It may have stopped for that purpose but you just didn't see any children. The statute doesn't state that there must be active loading or unloading.

A bigger question is: is that at or near a school?
 

CSO286

Senior Member
As to the first question. I do not know if the lights and sign were extended there was a slight curve and two suv's in front of me that made it difficult to see I followed other vehicles past the bus.
Ok, so because you "weren't sure" if the lights were on and the sign was out, it's OK to pas a school bus?

To me that shouts, More caution is necessary!! Seriously, while I do not know all the repurcussions in your area (all courts being different in their approaches), here the court treats it as severely as a DUI......Due to the risk of harm to children.
 

FlyingRon

Senior Member
Sounds like entrapment to me.
It's not entrapment. Trying to catch people violating the law is not entrapment. Using coercion to make people break laws that they wouldn't be inclined to otherwise do is entrapment.
Plus , there MUST actually be school children being transported. That's the purpose of the law, to protect children.

No children = no penalty
That would appear to be the case:

22454. (a) The driver of any vehicle, upon meeting or overtaking, from either direction, any schoolbus equipped with signs as required in this code, that is stopped for the purpose of loading or unloading any schoolchildren and displays a flashing red light signal and stop signal arm, as defined in paragraph (4) of subdivision (b) of Section 25257, if equipped with a stop signal arm, visible from front or rear, shall bring the vehicle to a stop immediately before passing the schoolbus and shall not proceed past the schoolbus until the flashing red light signal and stop signal arm, if equipped with a stop signal arm, cease operation.
 
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CdwJava

Senior Member
I have seen these operations done before in a variety of jurisdictions. I would think that they have to be engaged in the loading and unloading of children (i.e. kids need to be nearby or on board), but there may be case law or legal opinion that I am unaware of that interprets it otherwise. It is certainly worth arguing that no children were present, therefore the elements of the offense were not met.

But, it is NOT "entrapment."
 

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