Passing school bus with flashing amber lights

[FlyingRon]

What makes you think the letter of the law says they won't?

 

[Abbey16]

JustPal: Tomorrow will be a week since the incident, and I've not heard anything yet. I hope that's a good sign, but who knows... When something happens (praying it doesn't!), I'll update.

As for the lights, everyone I've talked to, incl. my daughter who just took driver's ed, is of the belief that it is OK to carefully pass when amber lights are on. Even the school district guy who followed me, was arguing with me that I was wrong and the lights were red. If passing amber were illegal, I don't think he would have argued about that?

This morning, my husband saw two school buses pulled over on different streets, with amber lights flashing, and every single care just continued on past them.

I think we have a vague and poorly worded reg. here.

 

[mwbarton]

Hey There posted the full statute, and it disagrees with your opinion.



It specifies flashing lamps, but does NOT specify a color. Once the lamps are flashing, no matter the color, you may not pass the bus.

It states that the bus must be stopped and the flashing lamps used IAW subsection (b). That subsection defines amber lights as warning lights. The red lights are defined as stop lights.

 

[JustAPal00]

Ron, If going bt the letter of the law, then only the driver, a crossing guard, or a police officer can report the crime.

 

[FlyingRon]

That is NOT what the statute says.
It says if those people report the crime, they can assume that the owner of the car was indeed the operator. Otherwise, you'd have to specifically identify the driver (which means following them until they stop in this case).

It also gives these guys to get counsel if needed from the prosecutor on their testimony. Others have to find their own attorney.

 

[JustAPal00]

What did you do, take a creative writing course? You're making this up! Where did you read the rest of that?

 

[FlyingRon]

Section (g) and (h) of the statute.


What justification do you have for your statement?

 

[JustAPal00]

The question is where do you come up with your info? You make statements as if they're fact when you're not even close. Here is the section of the statute dealing with identification of violators:

(g) Identification of violators. -- If any vehicle is witnessed by a police officer, school bus operator or school crossing guard to be in violation of subsection (d) of this section and the identity of the operator is not otherwise apparent, it shall be a rebuttable presumption that the person in whose name such vehicle is registered committed such violation of subsection (d) of this section.

(h) Bus operators, bus aides or crossing guards as witnesses. -- Whenever a school bus operator, a bus aide or a crossing guard is required to prepare, with legal counsel, for an appearance or to appear in any court as witness against a person who is alleged to have violated subsection (d) of this section, the witness shall be advised by the prosecutor assigned to the case by the Attorney General. If a witness is required to prepare for or to appear in court during working hours, as an operator, aide or guard, in a case as herein described, the witness shall not suffer any loss of wages, salary or leave time as an employee of the school district, bus contractor or other employing agency, because of such appearance, except as provided in this section. If the preparation or appearance occurs at a time other than regular working hours, then the witness shall be paid by the employer for the time involved. Payment for such time shall be at the rate regularly paid to that employee, except that such payment shall not exceed $8 per hour. Employers shall be reimbursed for wages and employment costs paid upon presentation of appropriate documentation to the Secretary of Education.

It's clear by reading it that the purpose for the witness being advised by the prosecutor is so that the witness suffers no loss by coming foreward. They are even compensated for their time. Nowhere does it mention that all others will have to pay for their own counsel! In fact the reason that these are the only people who would be able to report this crime is probably to avoid false reports from people who don't understand the difference between a red light and a yellow light!

 

[FlyingRon]

Ok, my comment about others having to cover their own legal expenses was a bit flip and not what the statue says (and I was intending that the statute said that).

But you are the one who is reading things into the statute that isn't there. The statute says nothing about limitting witnesses to the people listed NOR any special qualifications they have.

It says that those people when witnessing the infranction are entitled to:

1. Presume that the owner of the car is the person committing the infraction.
2. They get specific dispensation for their legal/time involved.

That is, if a police officer or anybody else whats to push this charge as a witness, they will specifically have to indentify the driver they saw violate it rather than just being able to say Blue Chevy with Delaware plate XXX123 passed the stopped bus.

It doesn't say they are the only ones that can report the crime. Which was the point I was making originally. You're the one who is engaging in creative reading.

I

 

[Abbey16]

The person who followed me, harassed me, and claimed to have reported the incident, was neither a police officer, bus driver, bus aide or school crossing guard.

 

[JustAPal00]

The point is the red flashing lights are what determines whether or not you are allowed to pass. The amber lights are warning lights that the red lights are about to come on. You are still allowed to pass when the lights are amber. Now if you read the exact wording of the statute, it can get a little grey. But my point was that if you want to go by the exact wording, then the police, driver, or crossing gaurd are the only ones allowed to report you. Either way I don't think the OP will get a citation unless the witness lies and says the lights were red. Assuming the OP is being honest!

 

[FlyingRon]

. But my point was that if you want to go by the exact wording, then the police, driver, or crossing gaurd are the only ones allowed to report you.

Which EXACT words? Nothing you have posted says anything of the sort.
(g) does NOT say that. (g) only says that they people listed don't have to identify the driver but may presume it to be the car owner.

If some other school employee chases down the driver as the OP says, then nothing precludes them from testifying that the OP did indeed violate (d).

 

[JustAPal00]

Well it doesn't say that either. No where does it say that anyone else can be a witness!

 

[The Occultist]

Well it doesn't say that either. No where does it say that anyone else can be a witness!

Let me use an extreme example to make a point: police usually don't witness murders, right? But the courts do accept witness testimony of those murders, yes?

 

[JustAPal00]

My point was it is illegal to pass a school bus while the red lights are flashing and not the amber. That is fairly clear from reading the statute. Some people have said that going by the exact wording the statute isn't clear enough. I merly said that going by the exact wording only the mentioned people can report the crime. You can't have it both ways. If you want to go by exact wording, no where does it say anyone besides those mentioned can report the crime!