Points Between NJ and Pennsylvania

[jpsen62]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Pennsylvania

I recently received a speeding ticket in Parsippany-Troy Hills N.J. in July of this year that I am contesting.

I was pulled over on a residential road for 38mph in a 25mph zone. There is also a school on this road. The officer checked off this box for a school zone on the summons. I had never traveled on this road before. I was advised by a co-worker that this was a good shortcut to get to Rt 46 from our office in Pine Brook NJ to my destination appointment that I was going to that was located on Rt 46 in Parsippany.

35 mph is the standard speed limit on a residential road in my area of PA in the Poconos.
However, I was informed by the police officer that there is a law in NJ whether posted or not that the speed limit in a residential zone in NJ is 25mph. I was not aware of this.

I was waved over by the officer who was standing in the middle of the road in front of the entrance to the school . The school was not in session nor is there a signal device warning of a posted speed limit in a school zone.

I do not believe I was going the speed he claims but he also claimed I was caught on Radar. As I did not see the officer get out of his vehicle prior to seeing him, and since the vehicle had completely blacked out windows, I do not believe that I was caught on radar. Besides, he was standing in the middle of the road as I was driving up to him so I was going even slower than normal.

I also requested to see my speed on the radar gun but was denied by the officer. It was an obvious to me at this point that this was a speed trap.

When I asked where the posted traffic signs were, he told me that they were all over the road I was on.

After I left my appointment that I was headed to, I returned to the road to look for the traffic signs. There was one traffic sign just after the school and one just before the school. The one posted before the school was obscured by a tree branch and I did not see it and drove right by it. The other one after the school was in clear view but I was not near this one to see it as it was after the school where I was waved over.

I took photos of the road and the obscured traffic sign and I pleaded not guilty and just had a Court appearance. I was subjected to meeting with the Local DA who offered me to plead guilty and be subjected to a $ 95 fine plus court costs or I could plead guilty to another offence with no points but pay a $399 surcharge.

I decided to continue to plead not guilty and have my day in court. When I was asked by the judge if I was pleading not guilty , he informed me the officer was not in the courtroom and I was informed that the case was being postponed and I would be notified of another date.

I do have 2 prior speeding tickets in NJ that I received on Rt. 80 over the past 18 months that I pled guilty to.

My questions are:

1) Do PA and NJ exchange points information and would PA hold me accountable for the points I received in NJ or vice versa ?

2) Do I have a chance of getting this case dismissed in Parsippany ?

3) Can I have my license suspended or revoked in either state for 3 speeding offences assuming I am convicted of this speeding ticket ? I do not have any recent violations in PA but I did have 1 speeding violation in PA about 5 years ago.

I cannot afford to have my license suspended or revoked as I work in Pine Brook and I am the sole supporter of my family.

 

[racer72]

However, I was informed by the police officer that there is a law in NJ whether posted or not that the speed limit in a residential zone in NJ is 25mph. I was not aware of this.

So you slept through the part of driver's ed about statutory speed limits. Happens to lots of people. Pennsylvania has them too. Guess what, it's 25 mph for residential streets too.

I also requested to see my speed on the radar gun but was denied by the officer. It was an obvious to me at this point that this was a speed trap.

The officer does not have to show you the radar gun. What you descibe does not come close to describing a speed trap.


1. Both states are members of the States Drivers License compact and the Non resident violators compact. The offense will show up against your driver's license, the points will not. Pennsylvania only accepts tranfer of points for major violations.

2. The Free Advice crystal ball has been retired. According to my Magic 8 ball, it says: Not likely. I don't know if I trust it though, it said I would win the lottery a few weeks ago and I didn't.

3. See #1 above. Google either for more info.

 

[jpsen62]

Thank you.

 

[Maestro64]

As Racer72 pointed out Residential roads are 25MPH in PA as well, the question you have to figure out was the road where the school was in fact residential.

Also see if NJ has a law about sign placement like PA does. Under Title 75, PA clearly stated that signs must be properly places and sufficiently legible

This is from section 3111 of Title 75.

No provision of this title for which official traffic-control devices are required shall be enforced against an alleged violator if at the time and place of the alleged violation an official device is not in proper position and sufficiently legible to be seen by an ordinarily observant person.

If NJ has a similar rule and the fact the sign was block might go in your favor, assuming the road is not defined as residential. If the road is not then they can not claim you should have been going 25 MPH even if it was not properly posted.

As it was pointed out PA will not assign points and most likely the ticket will not show up on PA records anyway. NJ police target PA drives for this reason since most just pay and do not worry about points. However, NJ can suspend driving privileges in their state if you have too many violation in too short of time. PA will only suspend if you fail to pay NJ.

 

[I_Got_Banned]

As Racer72 pointed out Residential roads are 25MPH in PA as well, the question you have to figure out was the road where the school was in fact residential.

Even if it wasn't "residential" would it not be a "school zone" thereby qualifying it as a "25mph" zone by default?

Then the rest of your analogy would also still apply in that the OP should have realized it was a school zone (with or without a sign & whether the sign is in clear view or whether ut is being obscured by whatever or not. !

 

[Maestro64]

Even if it wasn't "residential" would it not be a "school zone" thereby qualifying it as a "25mph" zone by default?

Then the rest of your analogy would also still apply in that the OP should have realized it was a school zone (with or without a sign & whether the sign is in clear view or whether ut is being obscured by whatever or not. !

No 100% sure how it works in NJ, but it probably pretty similar to PA I personally have not noticed much difference in the laws between the two states. Generally Schools zones are only active when the lights are blinking or at pre-defined times. My kids school sits on a 45MPH road but when the lights are blinking it 15 MPH.

The fact a school was there does not automatically reduce the speed limit all the time. Most state say kids have to be present or clear signs saying when the speed much be reduce.