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Pulled over for not Using Headlights at 7:28(Twilight/Dawn)? or so it may seem.

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theSHUTTERdown

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?
OHIO


The Entire Incident is as follows; I was Driving on McCarty Lane at 7:28 A.M. when I was stopped by a Sheriff for not using my headlights,

The Officer came to my Passenger window and asked if I was going to roll down the window, before I had a chance to react he swung my Car Door Open without permission and stick his head in the vehicle.

The Officer said to me "Why are your headlights off?" I Asked why he had pulled me over, He was Very Non-Compliant to my Questions. He then asked for my License(Which I did not Have.), He asked me then to step out of the car and to empty my pockets, and he was going to search me. He asked me if I had needles on me, I said no. He then Asked if I was drinking. I said No at first, but then fessed up and said I had drink Two Beers. We both came to an agreement that The BAC I had was Legal.



I was not acting belligerent with the officer but only speaking in a professional and respectful manner the whole time. He asked why I was driving, I told him to get my Son formula and he asked why I stopped at a local restaurant, I said I was hungry.

After he searched me, He put me in hand-cuffs and put me in the back of his Car. He then started searching through my car without my permission and I just watched him, and I had no way to tell him no, nor did He ask to search my Car.

Finally on the way Back to the Station, I asked again if I was under arrest, and He said No. He would not allow me to leave, nor did He ask me any more questions, he told me to sit down and Shut-Up.
I Obliged the officers command.



So I was taken to the station, *NOT BEING UNDER ARREST*, and I called my Sister to Come get me. and was waiting for some kind of response, I intercomed the officers, that if I wasn't under arrest, why could I not leave, the officer said at first I was under arrest, then he said he was just waiting on the officer to issue me tickets. Finally after about 30-40 minutes of waiting, another officer comes and releases me.

(Ohio Revised Code) Pulled over for Not using my headlights at dawn*So it may seem* , Issued a citation: 4153.04(Headlights). Further Resulted in another citation, failure to reinstate license: 4510.21. So Ohio Revised code 4513.04 States A Few Questions;

**Note: OHR 4513.04 states; (A) Every motor vehicle, other than a motorcycle, and every trackless trolley shall be equipped with at least two headlights with at least one near each side of the front of the motor vehicle or trackless trolley.

Every motorcycle shall be equipped with at least one and not more than two headlights.

(B) Whoever violates this section is guilty of a minor misdemeanor.

**************************

It would seem that instead of issuing me a citation for 4513.04, that 4513.03 would be more appropriate, right?

1. If I was Cited for 4513.04, which does not mention 4513.03, can I be cited for 4513.03 when I explain to them the mistake they made, in court. Because My car is in Compliance with 4513.04 but at the time was no mention of 4513.03.

2. If I provide evidence to the court that my Car has *Head Lights*, will 4513.04 be dismissed?

3. If "Question 1" Fails, the time was 7:28 and according to my research, the visibility at the time, was twilight, which is legal to have headlights off.

4. If I sucsessfully contest the Original citation for the reason being pulled over, will any other citation be dismissed for the incident at hand?

5. What are my chances of successfully contesting the two citations?

6. Did the Officer have Any right to Detain me?

7. Did the Officer have Any right to search my car?

8. Did the Officer have Any right to enter my car without Permission?

9. What Kind of Penalties could I face for these things if I plead not Guilty, but am found guilty?

10. Is there anything else I should do to prepare for my Courtcase in 10 days?
 


FlyingRon

Senior Member
Driving without your lights on is a crime. Driving without a license is a crime. What followed was perfectly legitimate.


I have no idea what you mean by reaching a decision that your BAC was legal.

You are right you are not guilty of .04, but they're free to fix that clerical error before your trial. If you go to trial on .04 you probably will be found not guilty.
You can point out to them in advance that you were inappropriately cited, but I suspect they'll thank you and correct the citation to the right one.
You didn't give the date, but in Jackson OH for the entire month of December, 7:28 is prior to sunrise. The law lists three things: sunset-to-sunrise, during inadequate light or visibility, and while operating wipers as criteria requiring the lights. You broke the first one.

The officer had reasonable suspicion that you committed a crime before the stop. After the stop he had probable cause to charge you with multiple crimes. Upon that arrest, certain searches are permitted.
The headlight infraction is about $128 (fine+costs). The license violation can be a fine up to $1000 and/or probation. If you have priors, jail is a possibility.
 
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theSHUTTERdown

Junior Member
Driving without your lights on is a crime. Driving without a license is a crime. What followed was perfectly legitimate.


I have no idea what you mean by reaching a decision that your BAC was legal.

You are right you are not guilty of .04, but they're free to fix that clerical error before your trial. If you go to trial on .04 you probably will be found not guilty.
You can point out to them in advance that you were inappropriately cited, but I suspect they'll thank you and correct the citation to the right one.
You didn't give the date, but in Jackson OH for the entire month of December, 7:28 is prior to sunrise. The law lists three things: sunset-to-sunrise, during inadequate light or visibility, and while operating wipers as criteria requiring the lights. You broke the first one.

The officer had reasonable suspicion that you committed a crime before the stop. After the stop he had probable cause to charge you with multiple crimes. Upon that arrest, certain searches are permitted.
The headlight infraction is about $128 (fine+costs). The license violation can be a fine up to $1000 and/or probation. If you have priors, jail is a possibility.

If the officer is called to the stand, I am allowed to Cross-Examine him, right?

I'd start with the leading question by describing the event, I'd lead like this,

Sgt Keith, I was pulled over at 7:28 A.M., is that correct? According to your Citation report you gave me, I was Cited for violating ohio revised code 4513.04, Right? During that time, was I cited for another violation of the OHR 4510.23, right? During that time you placed me in custody and took me back to the station for that specific citation right? During this time was there any other violation of the Ohio Revised Code that you Cited me for? so the citations of 4513.04 and 4510.23 were the reason I was being Cited correct?
 

FlyingRon

Senior Member
If the officer is called to the stand, I am allowed to Cross-Examine him, right?
Yes.

Sgt Keith, I was pulled over at 7:28 A.M., is that correct? According to your Citation report you gave me, I was Cited for violating ohio revised code 4513.04, Right? During that time, was I cited for another violation of the OHR 4510.23, right? During that time you placed me in custody and took me back to the station for that specific citation right? During this time was there any other violation of the Ohio Revised Code that you Cited me for? so the citations of 4513.04 and 4510.23 were the reason I was being Cited correct?
You'll likely be stopped unless the judge is lenient. You ask questions, you don't introduce your own testimony at this point.
You ask questions, you don't just blither on with your point and say "right?" every few sentences.

I'm not even sure why you are asking these questions? They can only try you for what are cited for at the beginning of the trial. If they've not yet fixed the cite to .03 it would go something like this.
Presumably the officer says he observed a car driving before sunrise without any lights. If he said you had neglected to turn them on.

Q: Did you observe whether the car was equipped with headlights or not?

if he answers no, you can end...he's not made a case that .04 applies, but you make that point later.
If he answers you did have headlights.

Q. Did you determine if the headlights worked or not.

No matter what he answers here you now have the foundation to make the point that you either are not guilty of the statute if they were working but you hadn't turned them on, or if he hadn't checked to see if they are operational, that he has not given evidence to show your car was not equipped with regard to the statute.
 

theSHUTTERdown

Junior Member
You'll likely be stopped unless the judge is lenient. You ask questions, you don't introduce your own testimony at this point.
You ask questions, you don't just blither on with your point and say "right?" every few sentences.

I'm not even sure why you are asking these questions? They can only try you for what are cited for at the beginning of the trial. If they've not yet fixed the cite to .03 it would go something like this.
Presumably the officer says he observed a car driving before sunrise without any lights. If he said you had neglected to turn them on.

Q: Did you observe whether the car was equipped with headlights or not?

if he answers no, you can end...he's not made a case that .04 applies, but you make that point later.
If he answers you did have headlights.

Q. Did you determine if the headlights worked or not.

No matter what he answers here you now have the foundation to make the point that you either are not guilty of the statute if they were working but you hadn't turned them on, or if he hadn't checked to see if they are operational, that he has not given evidence to show your car was not equipped with regard to the statute.
1. That's what I am wondering, so they can change my Citation before the trial starts?

2. If the judge tells me I was being cited for 4513.04 at the begging of my trial, I can pretty much dismiss that charge?

3. If I dismiss the first citation for being pulled over, can I dismiss the citation of having a suspended license?
 

FlyingRon

Senior Member
1. That's what I am wondering, so they can change my Citation before the trial starts?
Up until the trial starts (i.e. the first witness is called).
2. If the judge tells me I was being cited for 4513.04 at the begging of my trial, I can pretty much dismiss that charge?
I would think so.
3. If I dismiss the first citation for being pulled over, can I dismiss the citation of having a suspended license?
Nope. Not being guilty of the offense that they thought you had committed doesn't invalidate the stop. You'd have to show that there was no reasonable suspicion a crime had take place.
In your case, you were driving without the lights on. Whether that was because you weren't equipped, or you just failed to operate them doesn't change that. Even if they NEVER cited you for either 4513.03 or 04, you'd still be subject to the no license charge.
 

theSHUTTERdown

Junior Member
Nope. Not being guilty of the offense that they thought you had committed doesn't invalidate the stop. You'd have to show that there was no reasonable suspicion a crime had take place.
In your case, you were driving without the lights on. Whether that was because you weren't equipped, or you just failed to operate them doesn't change that. Even if they NEVER cited you for either 4513.03 or 04, you'd still be subject to the no license charge.
What if for the fact that I had a legitimate reason to be driving and I was tired, and I was out to get my Son Formula? That is still not grounds for dismissal? My Son could not have waited for me to walk 3 hours and back to feed him, he'd be in a great deal of pain.
 

FlyingRon

Senior Member
What if for the fact that I had a legitimate reason to be driving and I was tired, and I was out to get my Son Formula? That is still not grounds for dismissal? My Son could not have waited for me to walk 3 hours and back to feed him, he'd be in a great deal of pain.
You lost me. You have no legitimate ability to drive if you have no license. There are no excuses you can make that justify the crime.
 

theSHUTTERdown

Junior Member
You lost me. You have no legitimate ability to drive if you have no license. There are no excuses you can make that justify the crime.
I mean, if I explain to the Judge the reason I was out to get formula for my son because if he doesn't eat, he'd be in extreme pain.


You think my penalty would be less severe?
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
What if for the fact that I had a legitimate reason to be driving and I was tired, and I was out to get my Son Formula? That is still not grounds for dismissal? My Son could not have waited for me to walk 3 hours and back to feed him, he'd be in a great deal of pain.
...but there was plenty of time to stop at a restaurant for yourself :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
 

justalayman

Senior Member
I got the Formula from the Resteraunt
This thread just rolled into troll territory.


What restaurant sells infant formula?


But on top of that you said you told the cop you stopped there so you could eat. If the need for firmula was so dire taking the time to eat might be seen as child abuse or neglect.


You might want to put away the shovel before the pile gets too high or the hole too deep
 
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theSHUTTERdown

Junior Member
This thread just rolled into troll territory.


What restaurant sells infant formula?


But on top of that you said you told the cop you stopped there so you could eat. If the need for firmula was so dire taking the time to eat might be seen as child abuse or neglect.


You might want to put away the shovel before the pile gets too high or the hole too deep
I am sorry you mis-understood, I got the formula from a friend from that was meeting me there and he gave me a single taco because he didn't want it. -.-

I am only trolling because some others decide to troll.
 

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