"Ran red light" citation, but it wasn't

[lombard]

What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state? TX TX (why does it ask twice?)

I received a citation two years ago for running a red light when actually I had entered the intersection legally under a yellow. Not speeding or tailgating or any of that nonsense. A very tall amateur-conversion truck was in front of me, stopped abruptly (with no brake lights!) to make an illegal left turn from the center lane. I was already in the intersection when the tall truck moved away, and the light was yellow. My choices were: 1) proceed forward; 2) back up (not possible due to commuter traffic); or 3) do nothing.

The constable who issued the citation had been about four cars ahead of me and had turned to the northeast at that same intersection, proceeding up a hill. I sincerely don't believe he's an idiot, but I do believe he was mistaken. The approximated position of his car at the time I crossed under the yellow light precluded his being able to actually see ANY of the signal lights clearly, particularly utilizing his rear-view mirror to make the observation.

The prosecutor at the prelim hearing informed me it would be a "he said/she said" situation if I went to trial, but it seemed unreasonable for me to pay a fine when I had broken no law. My understanding of Texas traffic law is that if one enters an intersection legally, one must be permitted to leave that intersection legally.

Would requesting discovery for the constable's notations help me? Or would it just piss off the prosecutor?

Any and all sound advice will be greatly appreciated! Thanks, in advance.

 

[seniorjudge]

Q: Would requesting discovery for the constable's notations help me? Or would it just piss off the prosecutor?

A: If you plead not guilty and ask for a trial, then you should get discovery of all the prosecutor's evidence. The constable's notations say you ran a red light.

 

[lombard]

Q: Would requesting discovery for the constable's notations help me? Or would it just piss off the prosecutor?

A: If you plead not guilty and ask for a trial, then you should get discovery of all the prosecutor's evidence. The constable's notations say you ran a red light.

I'm a neophyte at this sort of thing, plus new to this Board. Where might I find a sample wording for a Discovery Request? How is it submitted? Directly to the prosecutor, or to the Court, or where? Is the prosecutor who handled the preliminary hearing the fellow who will be handling the trial also?

You know, if I had genuinely done the Bad Thing, paying the fine would not be a problem. But at the prelim, the prosecutor looked aghast when I said that it seemed that accepting deferred adjudication wouldn't be appropriate, since it would mean I was agreeing the citation was for a valid violation, when it simply was not. Have I signed myself up for the jurisprudence equivalent of "the dog ate my homework"? My family thinks I'm nuts to go to trial. Am I?

Thanks, in advance,

Carole

 

[lombard]

And another thing...

I did take photographs within a day of receiving the citation showing (among other things) the exact view from the estimated position of the Constable's car which demonstrates that it is difficult if not impossible to see the signals from where he would have been at the time I was stuck in the intersection behind the idiot truck.

Also have my narrative report of the events which was written within an hour of the incident (immediately when I reached my office). Granted, it is my own perspective - but it is entirely candid and was written extemporaneously. What, if any, of this might be useful?

Heaven knows, I've received the odd ticket here and there over the years, and if it was for something I genuinely did, I 'fessed up and paid the fine.

Carole

 

[seniorjudge]

Q: Where might I find a sample wording for a Discovery Request?

A: The first thing you do is plead not guilty. A trial will be set. Since I am of the Bryan Garner school of plain English (http://www.lawprose.org/) I would entitle your document Discovery Request and say: My name is [your name] and I am charged with [charge] under statute number [statute number] in case number [case number]. My trial is set for [trial date] and I request all of the discoverable portions of the prosecutor's file as soon as possible. I sent a copy of this to the prosecuting attorney's office at [prosecutor's office address] on [date you sent it to prosecutor]. Signed, [your name signed][your name typed] and [date].


Q: How is it submitted? Directly to the prosecutor, or to the Court, or where?

A: File it with the court and a copy to the prosecutor.


Q: Is the prosecutor who handled the preliminary hearing the fellow who will be handling the trial also?

A: I don't know; I haven't seen the docket assignments. Why don't you ask the prosecutor?


Q: Have I signed myself up for the jurisprudence equivalent of "the dog ate my homework"?

A: Yes.


Q: My family thinks I'm nuts to go to trial. Am I?

A: Your family knows you much better than I; I just met you.

 

[seniorjudge]

I did take photographs within a day of receiving the citation showing (among other things) the exact view from the estimated position of the Constable's car which demonstrates that it is difficult if not impossible to see the signals from where he would have been at the time I was stuck in the intersection behind the idiot truck.

Also have my narrative report of the events which was written within an hour of the incident (immediately when I reached my office). Granted, it is my own perspective - but it is entirely candid and was written extemporaneously. What, if any, of this might be useful?

Heaven knows, I've received the odd ticket here and there over the years, and if it was for something I genuinely did, I 'fessed up and paid the fine.

Carole

Well, I am not sure how you can get "...the exact view from the estimated position of the Constable's car...." That seems to be contradictory to me.

In any event, go for it if you think you have a shot. Just remember that the cop's testimony will be that he saw you clearly and saw the light clearly.

 

[lombard]

Q: Is the prosecutor who handled the preliminary hearing the fellow who will be handling the trial also?

A: I don't know; I haven't seen the docket assignments. Why don't you ask the prosecutor?

I tried several times - but he doesn't return phone calls. Seriously.

Well, I am not sure how you can get "...the exact view from the estimated position of the Constable's car...." That seems to be contradictory to me.

I explained that badly. After the turn, the constable's road goes uphill for a very short distance, curves around to the northeast and down. Once the hill is crested, the intersection cannot even be seen. My photographs show the view of the signal lights from every possible car-length distance after the turn before the hill crests and the intersection is lost to view. (I had my hubby drive while I took photos out the rear windshield.)

The constable was four car lengths ahead of me when he turned, it was in morning commuter traffic, and the section of road he turned on to has no shoulder. Since cars were NOT stopped behind him on the hill, I can reasonably assume he progressed up and over the hill at a normal rate of speed. The view is extremely limited, and only available for a brief distance.

That's probably what I SHOULD have said originally. In the interest of relative brevity, I misspoke. (Mistyped?)

Thanks, Carole

 

[seniorjudge]

I tried several times - but he doesn't return phone calls. Seriously.



I explained that badly. After the turn, the constable's road goes uphill for a very short distance, curves around to the northeast and down. Once the hill is crested, the intersection cannot even be seen. My photographs show the view of the signal lights from every possible car-length distance after the turn before the hill crests and the intersection is lost to view. (I had my hubby drive while I took photos out the rear windshield.)

The constable was four car lengths ahead of me when he turned, it was in morning commuter traffic, and the section of road he turned on to has no shoulder. Since cars were NOT stopped behind him on the hill, I can reasonably assume he progressed up and over the hill at a normal rate of speed. The view is extremely limited, and only available for a brief distance.

That's probably what I SHOULD have said originally. In the interest of relative brevity, I misspoke. (Mistyped?)

Thanks, Carole

Okay, call the court clerk and ask the clerk who is assigned to that case. It may not happen till the day of the trial so you will just have to go with the prosecutor who is assigned. What difference does it make?

 

[lombard]

you will just have to go with the prosecutor who is assigned. What difference does it make?

I'm just trying to discern to whom the Discovery Requests should be sent, since you mentioned specifically to the Court and to the Prosecutor.

Throwing myself upon your Altar of Mercy,

Carole

 

[seniorjudge]

Throwing myself upon your Altar of Mercy,

Who can deny a request like that?

Anyway, as I said in one of my earlier posts, you will be sending the discovery motion to the prosecutor's office:

...I sent a copy of this to the prosecuting attorney's office at [prosecutor's office address] on [date you sent it to prosecutor]....

Let the prosecutor's secretary figure out which assistant prosecutor gets the motion. Not your problem.

 

[lombard]

Who can deny a request like that?

Anyway, as I said in one of my earlier posts, you will be sending the discovery motion to the prosecutor's office:

...I sent a copy of this to the prosecuting attorney's office at [prosecutor's office address] on [date you sent it to prosecutor]....

Let the prosecutor's secretary figure out which assistant prosecutor gets the motion. Not your problem.

Marvelous! My thanks for your 1) candor; 2) wisdom; and 3) patience.

Obviously you're a gentleman as well as a scholar. (How's that for USDA Prime ButtKissing?) I do appreciate your help.

Cheers, Carole (keep your fingers/toes/eyes crossed)

 

[seniorjudge]

Marvelous! My thanks for your 1) candor; 2) wisdom; and 3) patience.

Obviously you're a gentleman as well as a scholar. (How's that for USDA Prime ButtKissing?) I do appreciate your help.

Cheers, Carole (keep your fingers/toes/eyes crossed)

You are welcome.

 

[ENASNI]

well!

Well Ms Carole Lombard... you may be a big ole movie star and all... but keep your hands of Da Judge...

He is mine!

Besides... what would Clark say...hmmmm?

 

[lombard]

What would Clark say?

Actually, "Pa" never could keep his fly buttoned!

But then again, one inch less and he'd have been known as The Queen of Hollywood, instead of the King!

Cheers,

Carole

 

[lwpat]

In Texas you have the right to a trial by jury. If you haven't already then ammend your "not guilty" plea to include a jury trial. Send it to the clerk of court by certified mail return receipt or take it and have her stamp it.

I am betting that they cannot get the constable to court which is why this is taking so long.