Reckless Driving due to Speed 80/55 Virginia

[Keezee]

What is the name of your state? VA

My fiancé' got a ticket for Reckless Driving going 80 in a 55 on a highway in Virginia. I got a ticket for 77/55 on the same exact highway about a year ago. When I went to court I denied legal representation and after the judge finished reading me the information and fined amount she asked if I had questions. I simply said 'Yes your honor, as this is my first offense I was wondering if the Driver Improvement Program was an option?" I don't know why but she said yes and proceeded to reduce the charge to simple speeding 1-9. I told my fiancé' to do the same but forgot to prepare her for all the scary things they emphasize like the potential for jail time, etc. She asked for DIP class as well but the judge (a different one) said that she would need to choose to be represented by a lawyer or to represent herself before he could sentence her. She of course being scared said that she'd like one court appointed, but alas because she makes $12/hr we have to pay for one... We can't afford one, but I was wondering what would happen if she chose to represent herself?

Tips, Advice?

Does it make much of a difference that she was 80/55 and I Was 77/55?

She is worried that they might take her license and this is her first legal issue since she's been a legal adult. It seems absurd for her to lose her license or get time for a first offense traffic violation? Couldn't we appeal out of those anyway?

Thanks a lot!

Court Date is Sept 11

EDIT: I did some reading and have a few more questions... Can I actually represent my fiancé? If I did would that provoke a judge at all and make him more apt to be harsh? Ideally I'd love to have a lawyer but it's so expensive. I spoke with a local lawyer as well and was told that even if he took it to court there isn't much he can do because there was no incident or defending party. That made me feel better but there is this looming fear of my fiancé going to jail... We can cope with loss of license but what I'm shooting for is this:

No lawyer fees
No time served
No criminal record

I know a RD incident is a criminal offense and should be taken seriously, but when you cook off all the fat here's the case:

You have a 20 year old young woman trying to start her life; she was rushing to pick up her fiancé from work and made a mistake. She has learned her lesson and it will not happen again. How can you convict a person like that to any amount of time or slapping them with a criminal record for the rest of her life?

Part of me wants to play it safe and break my bank on a lawyer and they other part wants to fight it because it seems ridiculous. A fine is no problem, a suspended license is no problem, what should I do guys?

Also, if she represented herself or I went with her and spoke (If possible) my 'defense' wouldn't be an attempt to have the case dismissed or anything but just to have the charges reduced as mine were. My efforts would be to just emphasize this:

The defendant is more than willing to take a DIP class to prevent future occurrence
The defendant was not belligerent at the time of citation
The defendant caused no harm to others during the offense
The defendant has a clean driving record (We would obtain this of course)
This is a first offense.

I've read about people who try to stick it to the man, but it seems like its more trouble then its worth. We can try to get a few continuances to better prepare and hope that the officer doesn't show. (Not sure what that would benefit really) and we could try to confirm the dates of radar calibration, etc but what would be suggested here? I don_t want the trouble of a drawn out issue either, please help.

Thanks again!

[FlyingRon]

First off, reckless is a serious charge (it is a misdemeanor) in Virginia. 15 over can be charged as reckless. Believe me I've seen guys (mostly ones doing upwards of 100mph) spend time in jail on this charge.

The normal way to plea it down is if you have a clean (in the past few years) record to go to the Commonwealth attorney and make a deal with him (can be done immediately prior to the trial). If he agrees, they'll turn the reckless into some lesser charge, and defer the judgement for a few months to give you time to do the DIP.

No you can not represent your fiance (unless you are a lawyer).
The court is not even real big on letting friends and relatives of the defendant translate unless they can't find a disinterested translator available.

However, I can tell you if she got a continuance to obtain counsel and she shows up withou counsel, the judges are going to not look on that favorably. Get a lawyer (even if you have to borrow the money) or contact the commonwealth's attorney and get his acquiescence on the DIP bargain.

[Keezee]

Thanks so much! I had JUST finished writing down the local commonwealth attourneys information when you replied. Would a letter suffice or would it be best to have her go in in person? Also, can this be done prior to her hearing date?

Thanks again!

[seniorjudge]

Originally Posted by Keezee

Thanks so much! I had JUST finished writing down the local commonwealth attourneys information when you replied. Would a letter suffice or would it be best to have her go in in person? Also, can this be done prior to her hearing date?

Thanks again!

Can you read the English language?

You were correctly told:

...The normal way to plea it down is if you have a clean (in the past few years) record to go to the Commonwealth attorney and make a deal with him (can be done immediately prior to the trial)....

(Hint: The verb go in English does NOT mean "write a letter".)

Now say thank you to the nice FlyingRon.

[Keezee]

Originally Posted by seniorjudge

Can you read the English language?

You were correctly told:

...The normal way to plea it down is if you have a clean (in the past few years) record to go to the Commonwealth attorney and make a deal with him (can be done immediately prior to the trial)....

(Hint: The verb go in English does NOT mean "write a letter".)

Now say thank you to the nice FlyingRon.

Unasked for advice is criticism...

Try this:

[url]http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/clarification[/url]

Thanks a lot Ron, you helped.

[Indiana Filer]

Originally Posted by Keezee

Unasked for advice is criticism...

You did ask for advice. The first post in this thread was from you, was it not? I distinctly remember reading your post requesting advice.

Here's a hint: His username is SeniorJUDGE for a reason.

[Keezee]

Originally Posted by Indiana Filer

His username is SeniorJUDGE for a reason.

This forum is bitter-sweet apparently.

Being a judge is not an excuse for arrogance, sarcasm, or bigotry. Or is there some law somewhere that says otherwise?

I didn't ask for grammatical examination or sarcasm and that's all I got from that post.

Cheers and thanks again.

[seniorjudge]

Originally Posted by Keezee

This forum is bitter-sweet apparently.

Being a judge is not an excuse for arrogance, sarcasm, or bigotry. Or is there some law somewhere that says otherwise?

I didn't ask for grammatical examination or sarcasm and that's all I got from that post.

Cheers and thanks again.

Arrogance, sarcasm, bigotry?

Where is that in any of my posts to you?

FlyingRon gave you the correct and accurate advice and you kept asking the same question.

[Keezee]

Ok, more advice please 

My fiancé was given the impression that lawyer was mandatory and at her first hearing said that she would like to consider legal counsel, they rescheduled the hearing and she plans to return without legal representation…

First of all, is that acceptable if she explains to the judge that although she doesn’t have legal representation she took the time between hearings to seek legal counsel?

She doesn’t want to move to trial or anything but my question is how would she enter into a plea bargain after pleading guilty? What’s the ‘syntax?’

One other question: I’ve read that having no other contemporaneous charges help in having the offense lowered. She did get non moving violation for expired tags at the same time but it was for a car she didn’t own and also wasn’t a subsidiary of driving recklessly, will that play much of a part? It’s already been dismissed as we are now in compliance in that arena.

[FlyingRon]

The commonwealth's attorney will give a form agreeing to the DIP and the reduced charge. You give this to the clerk during your trial and the judge will take care of it. As you have noted, traffic court is rather informal for expeditious reasons (sort of like small claims court). If something gets appealed there it goes to gdc and gets heard de novo with more conventional criminal procedure.

I would seriously recommend at this point a lawyer. I can almost guarantee that if anything goes wrong at the next court date (having been a continuance to get counsel) that you will NOT be allowed to continue again. Remember that jail time is a possibility. Reckless typically can get 60 days (often suspended to just a few days). Don't screw around here. The time to meet with the Commonwealth's attorney was at the first appearance. Use a lawyer this time.

[seniorjudge]

Originally Posted by FlyingRon

The commonwealth's attorney will give a form agreeing to the DIP and the reduced charge. You give this to the clerk during your trial and the judge will take care of it. As you have noted, traffic court is rather informal for expeditious reasons (sort of like small claims court). If something gets appealed there it goes to gdc and gets heard de novo with more conventional criminal procedure.

I would seriously recommend at this point a lawyer. I can almost guarantee that if anything goes wrong at the next court date (having been a continuance to get counsel) that you will NOT be allowed to continue again. Remember that jail time is a possibility. Reckless typically can get 60 days (often suspended to just a few days). Don't screw around here. The time to meet with the Commonwealth's attorney was at the first appearance. Use a lawyer this time.

gdc=General District Court
trial de novo=a new trial which acts like there was never a trial before

Although a judge would more likely give a DEFENDANT (our poster) a continuance before he would give one to the government, I would agree with FR...don't screw around here.

Virginia is really nasty about these kinds of cases. Get a lawyer. Today.

[Keezee]

Except for the judge acknowledging that we had to pay $750 for almost no reason what can the lawyer do that we can't? I understand they know the legal system, but that's what I'm here for... My current plan is this:

Obtain driving record from DMV
Have fiancé make an appointment with the commonwealth attorney
Discuss a possibility of nol pros based on a clean record to this point and that proper legal representation would present undue financial hardship. Of course explain the willingness to take a DIP and guarantee no offenses for at least 6 months. And be apologetic.
My logic is that the appeal fees for a negative verdict would still be less than a lawyer saying the same things my fiancé has legal right to say without shelling out almost $1,000

This is a first offense of a 20 year old with a clean history; I'd hate to live in a country that would act so harshly on that offense... a criminal record for life, absurd premiums, and potential jail time.. That’s absolutely ridiculous. I understand the severity of the charge but literally, no harm was done and the potential for further harm is being put to rest here.

I dislike the legal system.

[seniorjudge]

My fiancé was given the impression that lawyer was mandatory and at her first hearing said that she would like to consider legal counsel, they rescheduled the hearing and she plans to return without legal representation…

I don't know if a lawyer is mandatory but it is certainly an extremely good idea.


First of all, is that acceptable if she explains to the judge that although she doesn’t have legal representation she took the time between hearings to seek legal counsel?

And the judge will say, "So why didn't you get a lawyer?" (while thinking, "The road to hell is paved with good intentions.")


She doesn’t want to move to trial or anything but my question is how would she enter into a plea bargain after pleading guilty? What’s the ‘syntax?’

Syntax? I'm not sure what you mean. Anyway, she should say to the prosecutor, "I want to plea bargain this. What will you offer?"



One other question: I’ve read that having no other contemporaneous charges help in having the offense lowered. She did get non moving violation for expired tags at the same time but it was for a car she didn’t own and also wasn’t a subsidiary of driving recklessly, will that play much of a part? It’s already been dismissed as we are now in compliance in that arena.

Irrelevant.

[seniorjudge]

Except for the judge acknowledging that we had to pay $750 for almost no reason what can the lawyer do that we can't? I understand they know the legal system, but that's what I'm here for... My current plan is this:

Some prosecutors are hesitant to talk to defendants who do not have a lawyer because the defendants oftentimes do not understand what is going on. A prosecutor can have a rule that he will not talk to unrepresented defendants; doing so can put the prosecutor in jeopardy.


Obtain driving record from DMV
Have fiancé make an appointment with the commonwealth attorney
Discuss a possibility of nol pros based on a clean record to this point and that proper legal representation would present undue financial hardship. Of course explain the willingness to take a DIP and guarantee no offenses for at least 6 months. And be apologetic.
My logic is that the appeal fees for a negative verdict would still be less than a lawyer saying the same things my fiancé has legal right to say without shelling out almost $1,000


Obviously, try this. It can't hurt. But, as I said, Virginia is really nasty about these kinds of cases. Some prosecutors will flatly refuse to plea bargain stuff. One of my clerks got a ticket in a state where (when I called the prosecutor) I learned that there was no plea bargaining on speeding because there had been too many wrecks in his county caused by speeders. End of story.


This is a first offense of a 20 year old with a clean history; I'd hate to live in a country that would act so harshly on that offense... a criminal record for life, absurd premiums, and potential jail time.. That’s absolutely ridiculous. I understand the severity of the charge but literally, no harm was done and the potential for further harm is being put to rest here.

Noble sentiments but the prosecutor may not agree. Be prepared for that.



I dislike the legal system.

Me too. But it's the best one in the world.

[Keezee]

Originally Posted by seniorjudge

I dislike the legal system.
Me too. But it's the best one in the world.

I have to agree, but there is always room for improvement, and I do appreciate the help here.

Luckily (I guess) I know they do plea bargain on speeding because I had almost the exact same case a year ago and plea bargained a reckless to simple speeding without a lawyer present.

Thanks yet again!