Red Light Camera citation (detailed) will pay you via paypal if you can help me

[jarrodsd80]

What is the name of your state? CA

Ok, Long story short as possible: I am fighting this citation mainly on principle, but I do have some legitimate legal routes (it appears to me).

I received a red light camera ticket for a right turn, which (after reviewing video) shows that I did come to a very brief stop (passed the limit line) before turning.

If you could please review the video by going here: [url]https://www.photonotice.com/login.asp[/url]
and entering the following: Citation # w14140A, License plate #: 6n32130, and City code: Poway

I've read through the advice on these websites:

[url]http://highwayrobbery.net/redlightcamsticket.htm#Handle[/url]
[url]http://www.helpigotaticket.com/stra/redlight.html[/url]

I had mailed on my behalf this prepared Discovery Request to the San Diego DA's office
[url]http://www.helpigotaticket.com/forms/disc_rlc.doc[/url]

FYI: I was issued the ticket by the city of Poway Sheriff's department, so I'm not sure who exactly is prosecuting me? In the discovery request form above I entered the city of "Poway" on line 3 of page 2, but I did mail it to the San Diego DA.

I went in for "walk in" arraignment today and tried to get the stubborn judge to look at my discovery request copy, but she said, quote: "They don't have to respond to the discovery until you plead not guilty." This is clearly wrong according to this:

Is It Ever Too Early to Ask for Discovery?

Some authorities have been telling traffic ticket defendants that they cannot request discovery until they have been arraigned and have entered their plea. Baloney!

Since the laws regulating the Discovery process (Penal Code Section 1054) do not tell us how early we may request discovery, we have looked to other sources:

1. The very authoritative California Criminal Defense Practice, by Matthew Bender (available at every law library), says:

"Neither Penal Code Section 1054.5(b) nor Section 1054.7, nor any other provision within Sections 1054 through 1054.7 specifies when informal discovery may first be requested, nor do any of these provisions prohibit the parties from requesting informal discovery at the time of arrest, or at the time of the filing of a criminal complaint, or at the time an indictment is filed, well before any arraignment or entry of plea has taken place." (Bender, Section 70.09[1][b] )

She went on to say that she could not dismiss the case at arraignment, at which time I read to her (because she refused to read it) CA penal code 1385(a) which states that she CAN dismiss the case.

So now I have a court date of 4/25/08 and I don't know what approach to take. I ordered an audio copy of the arraignment, in case that would be of some benefit to me.

The fact that I did in fact momentarily stop at the light (albeit over the limit line) is one approach I was thinking of, but now I have this botched up arraignment recording, and then this generalized red light camera ticket defense from the net which claims to be pretty strong: [url]http://www.helpigotaticket.com/stra/redlight.html[/url]

If you have any questions for me please email me at [email]jarrodsd80@yahoo.com[/email]

I have to win this for all those people being targeted by these cameras for right turn violations in order to make a quick $455 (half to the city and half to the private company that operates these unconstitutional, lazy cop ticket generating, P's. O.S.

Thanks, and it doesn't matter if you are a lawyer or not...I will gladly pay you for an organized game-plan. Like I said...it is a matter of principle to me.

Jarrod

[Zigner]

Dude, you're caught ON VIDEO for failure to stop BEFORE the limit line, as is required by LAW.

[The Occultist]

I'll take your word that you did come to a complete stop (a complete cessation of movement), even though it didn't appear to me that you did, but if you did, it definitely came AFTER the line, so you are in violation. I really don't see on what grounds, legally or "on principle", you have in fighting this.

EDIT: for traffic videos, that really is some great quality!

[Zigner]

Originally Posted by The Occultist

EDIT: for traffic videos, that really is some great quality!

I didn't see the need to look at it before, since the OP already had admitted to the violation...but based on your recommendation I just looked. Wow, I have to agree with you!

Oh, and thanks to the OP for his testimony as to the effectiveness of the two sites!

[Zigner]

Originally Posted by jarrodsd80

I have to win this for all those people being targeted by these cameras

You mean all the people who can't be bothered to follow the law that requires that they actually STOP and that said STOP be behind the LIMIT LINE?

[jarrodsd80]

Originally Posted by The Occultist

I'll take your word that you did come to a complete stop (a complete cessation of movement), even though it didn't appear to me that you did, but if you did, it definitely came AFTER the line, so you are in violation. I really don't see on what grounds, legally or "on principle", you have in fighting this.

EDIT: for traffic videos, that really is some great quality!

It didn't look to me as if I did come to a complete stop either initially, but if you loop it, you can see that I actually do.

[jarrodsd80]

Originally Posted by Zigner

You mean all the people who can't be bothered to follow the law that requires that they actually STOP and that said STOP be behind the LIMIT LINE?

Ok Zinginger I see your smileys so I won't get too defensive, but how often do your tires actualy stop before the limit line when you need to check for oncoming traffic? If you notice...there is a blue vehicle in the far left lane that is sticking out a bit...I would rather be safe and have a clear view past "him" then get killed by someone plowing into my driver side.

[Zigner]

Originally Posted by jarrodsd80

It didn't look to me as if I did come to a complete stop either initially, but if you loop it, you can see that I actually do.

Ok, say this to yourself slowly: The law requires that I stop BEFORE the limit line.

After you've done that, please recognize how silly your quoted statement is, as it has no bearing on your situation.

[jarrodsd80]

Originally Posted by Zigner

I didn't see the need to look at it before, since the OP already had admitted to the violation...but based on your recommendation I just looked. Wow, I have to agree with you!

Oh, and thanks to the OP for his testimony as to the effectiveness of the two sites!

is sarcasm inherited in your family or did you learn it by watching too many re-runs of Sienfeld?

[Zigner]

Originally Posted by jarrodsd80

Ok Zinginger I see your smileys so I won't get too defensive, but how often do your tires actualy stop before the limit line when you need to check for oncoming traffic? If you notice...there is a blue vehicle in the far left lane that is sticking out a bit...I would rather be safe and have a clear view past "him" then get killed by someone plowing into my driver side.

Ahh, so the little kid running across the street in the crosswalk doesn't matter...

As for "how often do I stop before the limit line?" ALWAYS - then I creep forward until I can see - that's what the law allows for.

[jarrodsd80]

Originally Posted by The Occultist

I'll take your word that you did come to a complete stop (a complete cessation of movement), even though it didn't appear to me that you did, but if you did, it definitely came AFTER the line, so you are in violation. I really don't see on what grounds, legally or "on principle", you have in fighting this.

EDIT: for traffic videos, that really is some great quality!

By "on principle" i should be more clear. I object "on principle" to these red light camera tickets on a constitutional as well as political and financial grounds. I am not arguing that I am 100% innocent. If I was... I would not be called "the defendant" and would not need advice; would I? I am principly opposed to these cameras because they are a weakly veiled source of mass revenue for the state, and they are owned and opperated by a private company who gets a 50% cut of every ticket (can you say conflict of interest?). They have stopped going after the straight red light runners, and started targeting the "rolling rights". It's all about money my friend, and I have observed many people turning right on red since this happened and I probably don't have to tell you that less than 20% actually come to a stop before the limit line. my ticket is $455. Remember that half of that goes top the company that installs and regulates these damn things next time you turn right and you need a clear view....do me a favor and watch your front tires.

[Zigner]

Ok, maybe I should be more clear (if that's possible).

You are not allowed to "roll" past the limit line on a red light. I might feel a wee bit o' sympathy for you if you said "wow, that's a LOT of money, maybe I should be more careful about running red lights".

I agree, very few people actually stop where they're supposed to. And, I have witnessed pedestrians taken out because of EXACTLY what you did.

So, tell me, at what point WILL the costs outweigh the crime? Obviously, $455 isn't enough. I hope they double THAT fine. Maybe you'll pay attention next time

[jarrodsd80]

Originally Posted by Zigner

Ahh, so the little kid running across the street in the crosswalk doesn't matter...

As for "how often do I stop before the limit line?" ALWAYS - then I creep forward until I can see - that's what the law allows for.

Are you aware that this site is called "Free advice" not "free critisism?" Do you not believe that I can see crossing pedestrians before I can see oncoming traffic? Come on Zinger....is the crosswalk closer to me or the oncoming traffic? Zinger I have a homework assignment for you.... for one day (at least 3 hours of driving) I want you to observe how many people actually stop before the limit line like the pristine citizen you are...you might be surprised to see the answer.

In fact Zinger....Are you aware that the red light camera tickets take a picture based on an assumption? That's right...They snap a photo based on your approaching speed....They assume that you will run the light based on this so they take a picture. So because I was going under the speed limit and yet faster than whatevr the camera is set to...I was photographed. I have sat at the very same intersection and watched many a person roll completely through the red light without coming to a stop at all, and not be photographed. This to me is a product of trying to get technology to do the work of a police officer and the obvious flaws that technology brings along with it. Are you aware that they are trying to pass legislation to allow speeding cameras installed on streets too? I am a democrat but man Zinge....you must really love big brother to be defending him in this way. I can't wait until you get one of these camera tickets....and I'm done with you.

[FlyingRon]

Originally Posted by jarrodsd80

Ok Zinginger I see your smileys so I won't get too defensive, but how often do your tires actualy stop before the limit line when you need to check for oncoming traffic?

Every time. That's why it is there. Not just the tires but all portions of the vehicle. This means that the body has come back to rest on the springs as well.

If you notice...there is a blue vehicle in the far left lane that is sticking out a bit...I would rather be safe and have a clear view past "him" then get killed by someone plowing into my driver side.

Huh? You must stop before the line. If you can't see if the way is clear before crossing the line, you MUST wait until the light turns green. There's no constitutionally protected right to make turns on red.

You're guilty as hell, you can weasel all you want saying you do it this way all the time or you have invented good reasons to do so, but you're still guilty.

[Zigner]

Originally Posted by jarrodsd80

Are you aware that this site is called "Free advice" not "free critisism?" Do you not believe that I can see crossing pedestrians before I can see oncoming traffic? Come on Zinger....is the crosswalk closer to me or the oncoming traffic? Zinger I have a homework assignment for you.... for one day (at least 3 hours of driving) I want you to observe how many people actually stop before the limit line like the pristine citizen you are...you might be surprised to see the answer.

So, how often did "But EVERYONE ELSE does it" work with your mommy?

Grow up.