Red light Camera Ticket

[batman917]

What is the name of your state? California
I got a red light camera ticket. The light was yellow and I proceeded to go through the intersection, but as I aproched the intersection the light turn red and I was already going 35 to 40 mph into the intersection. I called the police officer in charge and asked him how is a driver suppose to know how long the yellow light will hold for when diffent intersections hold at diffent times. He told me it is based on the speed limit posted in the area. Is there any way to get out of pay this ticket?

[Jim_bo]

Yes there is. First thing you do is ask for discovery. Use the example found here: [url]http://www.helpigotaticket.com/forms/disc_rlc.rtf[/url] . I think it is likely that the district attorney will ignore your discovery request, even though he is obligated to provide it within 30 days. If he does, then you certainly have grounds for dismissal. I have done this a couple times before and it works well. However, if he sends you the discovery, it is very likely that there was an error in the chain of custody of the film or an imappropriate person reading the film, etc... Do the discovery thing first and go from there.

Jimbo

[The Occultist]

Grounds for a dismissal? The only defense to running a red light is not having run the red light.

OP, you said the light turned red BEFORE you got to the intersection. That means the light turned yellow LONG before you got to the intersection, so you should not have have decided to enter the intersection at all.

[sukharev]

No, you see, yellow light means "accelerate, quick, before it turns red!"

[Jim_bo]

Originally Posted by The Occultist

Grounds for a dismissal? The only defense to running a red light is not having run the red light.

That is the most unamerican thing I have ever heard! I would vigorously defend myself against ANY charge that is leveled against me as it is the state's burden to prosecute me... not mine!

Also, laws are rarely as simple as they seem. Driving through a red light doesn't necessarily mean you are guilty of an infraction. For example, in order for the red light to be valid, the length of the time the yellow light lasts has to be based on the speed limit of the road it is on. The speed limit has to be justified by a traffic and engineering survey. If the speed limit is not justified, then the length of the yellow light is not justified which means that there is no standing for the state to prosecute you as the red light is basically invalid. If the state wants to prosecute me for breaking their laws, I am going to make damn sure they have abided by their laws in doing so!!!

Jimbo

[BelizeBreeze]

Originally Posted by Jim_bo

That is the most unamerican thing I have ever heard! I would vigorously defend myself against ANY charge that is leveled against me as it is the state's burden to prosecute me... not mine!

Also, laws are rarely as simple as they seem. Driving through a red light doesn't necessarily mean you are guilty of an infraction. For example, in order for the red light to be valid, the length of the time the yellow light lasts has to be based on the speed limit of the road it is on. The speed limit has to be justified by a traffic and engineering survey. If the speed limit is not justified, then the length of the yellow light is not justified which means that there is no standing for the state to prosecute you as the red light is basically invalid. If the state wants to prosecute me for breaking their laws, I am going to make damn sure they have abided by their laws in doing so!!!

Jimbo

And of course you can quote the statue where this magic speed law is outlined.

[Jim_bo]

Originally Posted by BelizeBreeze

And of course you can quote the statue where this magic speed law is outlined.

Certainly:

21455.7. (a) At an intersection at which there is an automated
enforcement system in operation, the minimum yellow light change
interval shall be established in accordance with the Traffic Manual
of the Department of Transportation.
(b) For purposes of subdivision (a), the minimum yellow light
change intervals relating to designated approach speeds provided in
the Traffic Manual of the Department of Transportation are mandatory
minimum yellow light intervals.
(c) A yellow light change interval may exceed the minimum interval
established pursuant to subdivision (a).


For the specific yellow light durations, see Table 4D-102 on page 4D-27 of: [url]http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/traffops/signtech/mutcdsupp/pdf/CA-Chap4D.pdf[/url] .

Any more questions?

Jimbo

[BelizeBreeze]

As I suspected. Your failure to read is the problem.

First off, DIAGRAM 4D-102 is on page 4D-18 not 4D-27 (which is the diagram for SUGGESTED Detector Setback from Limit Line)

Secondly, your quoted statute suggests nothing about matching the time duration to any such existing speed study of the controlled throughway. They are minimum measurements for the APPROACH speed.

And lastly, your 4D-102 diagram is for placement of signal devices, NOT their time duration. It is the TYPICAL signal layout at offset intersections.

The plain fact is, nothing you have posted is relevant to the poster's situation unless he was ticketed for faulty construction of a traffic control device.

[Jim_bo]

Originally Posted by BelizeBreeze

As I suspected. Your failure to read is the problem.

First off, DIAGRAM 4D-102 is on page 4D-18 not 4D-27 (which is the diagram for SUGGESTED Detector Setback from Limit Line)

Secondly, your quoted statute suggests nothing about matching the time duration to any such existing speed study of the controlled throughway. They are minimum measurements for the APPROACH speed.

And lastly, your 4D-102 diagram is for placement of signal devices, NOT their time duration. It is the TYPICAL signal layout at offset intersections.

The plain fact is, nothing you have posted is relevant to the poster's situation unless he was ticketed for faulty construction of a traffic control device.

You should really just not say anything if you don't know what you are talking about. I never said anything about DIAGRAM 4D-102, I said TABLE 4D-102. The "approach speed" is the posted speed limit. If you like, I can provide the statute that requires a Prima Facie speed limit to be justified by a Traffic and Engineering Survey.

The "plain fact" is that this defense has been successfully used many times and you don't have a clue what the hell you are talking about. You are just a troll trying to criticize others in an attempt to make yourself feel better.

Jimbo

[The Occultist]

Originally Posted by Jim_bo

That is the most unamerican thing I have ever heard!

So, you feel the American thing to do is to get by without taking responsibility for your actions? That'll lead society in a good direction...

[Jim_bo]

Originally Posted by The Occultist

So, you feel the American thing to do is to get by without taking responsibility for your actions? That'll lead society in a good direction...

Nope... I feel the American thing to do is to recognize that the OP is innocent until proven guilty and recognize the fact that the state has the burden to prosecute while following its own laws. This is the foundation of our judicial system. What could be more American than that?

On the other hand... telling someone there is no defense for being charged with an infraction is definitely a poor way to lead society (unless you are a communist).

[sukharev]

Communist??? Oh, no no no, you got it all wrong, pal. See, in communism, everybody gets what he wants, and everybody works as much as they like - that's the basic rule. Nobody said anything about innocense

If you guys want to argue the yellow was too short for the speed limit, go ahead. You know well it's a coin toss. At least next time you will be less likely to blow red light. Just don't pretend you are defending your "rights".

[Jim_bo]

No one said to argue that the yellow light was too short. I only suggested that the OP do a Discovery Request so he could decide on what a good defense would be.

Jimbo

[batman917]

Thanks Jimbo for the advice I will give it a try.

Batman917

[Jim_bo]

Let us know what happens!