Red light ticket

[cmarsh90]

I was pulled over for running a red light in Indianapolis, Indiana. The local ordinance I am accused of breaking is: 441-409. which states in part " Yellow or amber: When shown with or following the green signal:
a. Vehicular traffic facing the signal shall stop before entering the nearest crosswalk at the intersection, but if such stop cannot be made in time or in safety, vehicle may be driven cautiously through the intersection."

The light turned yellow as I entered the intersection and I never saw it red while I was in the intersection. I live in Colorado not Indiana, so is there a way to fight this? If so how?

Also I returned to the intersection today and timed the light about 10 times, obviously there is some human error in doing that but it seemed inconsistent between 4.0 and 4.3 seconds. This is on a pretty much flat road with a 45mph speed limit.

Finally Indy.com | Post: Lawsuit is taking traffic court to court | Indianapolis, Indiana perhaps should enter into the calculus of whether to fight it or not.

 

[Pugilist]

The original post-er mentioned that she was cited under a local ordinance. I tried looking up 441-409 in both the state and the city laws, and could not find it. But if she was cited under Indianapolis muni code, isn't that illegal for the city to do? Don't moving violations have to be cited under state code? I am aware that such things are happening in other states (California, for instance), but it's not legal there, either, and eventually will be supressed.

 

[cmarsh90]

Thanks for the info Pugilist, I was not aware that I have to be cited under state code.

To get to the muni code go to Municode.com | Online Library then Chapter 441 on the left hand side.

Can anyone else comment on the muni vs. state code and how that may help my case?

 

[I_Got_Banned]

Thanks for the info Pugilist, I was not aware that I have to be cited under state code.

To get to the muni code go to Municode.com | Online Library then Chapter 441 on the left hand side.

Can anyone else comment on the muni vs. state code and how that may help my case?

Pugilist's theory that a municipality cannot cite for violations under its own ordinances/codes is simply just that, a theory... and one that is based on HIS OWN interpretation of California statutes. Which obviously would not apply in Indiana or Indianapolis for that matter.

So unless/until someone steps up to the bar and argues that these ordinances/codes as being invalid, and until a higher court will order these municipalities to cease from citing under their own code, then it would be fair to assume that your citation stands.

 

[I_Got_Banned]

Also I returned to the intersection today and timed the light about 10 times, obviously there is some human error in doing that but it seemed inconsistent between 4.0 and 4.3 seconds. This is on a pretty much flat road with a 45mph speed limit.

As far as I know, and according to the Federal Highway regulations and the Manual on Unifrom Traffic Control Devices (you can search/check specific state versions here: http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/resources/state_info/index.htm ) the minimum yellow phase signal timing must be set at 3.9 seconds. So based on what you stated and even with the "human error" that you cited, it seems that this particular signal does meet that minimum. You can contact the agency responsible for engineering/maintaining that particular intersection to request a copy of the design survey for the intersection and from there, you can try to establish whether the timing is properly set or not.

But even with all that information, and although I am not sure whether your citation was issued by a witnessing officer or by an automated camera system, I would venture a guess that the reason you were cited because you allegedly entered the intersection (as in crossed the line) on red, so your arguing that the yellow phase is not timed properly may or may not get you the dismissal that you're seeking. You're certainly within you legal limits to try to contest the citation in an attempt to prove otherwise.

Lastly, I am not too familiar with Indiana's court rules and whether they would allow you to contest a citation without having to appear in court. Your best bet there would be to contact the court which has jurisdiction over your citation and inquire as to what options you might have.

Good luck!

 

[cmarsh90]

Thanks for the info folks.

The ticket was issued by an officer who pulled me over, not a camera.

I contend that the light turned yellow while I was in the intersection.

 

[cmarsh90]

I am unable to find any specific method in the Federal MUTCD or Indiana MUTCD regarding how long a yellow interval should be.

Can anyone point me in the direction of something that gives an accepted method?

 

[I_Got_Banned]

I am unable to find any specific method in the Federal MUTCD or Indiana MUTCD regarding how long a yellow interval should be.

Can anyone point me in the direction of something that gives an accepted method?

Here is the FHWA Signal Timing Manual Traffic Signal Timing Manual: Chapter 6 - Office of Operations

Now keep in mind that your state may have a revised manual that is derived from those Federal requirements... But ^that^ should give you an general idea.

You can also contact the agency (State/County/City) responsible for maintaining that particular intersection and request the Engineering Survey for the same. That should give you ALL the data that you would need to establish whether the timing is set correctly or not.

ETA: I know its a lot of reading but you may also find that this document is helpful: http://www.spcregion.org/pdf/signals/The_Signal_Timing_Manual_06302008.pdf