Red light violoation

[Krizteenah]

What is the name of your state? Florida

As I was driving down US1 in Coral Gables, I was pulled over for "running a red light." This, however, is not the case. The only way I can describe it was that as soon as I PASSED THE CROSSWALK, into the intersection, it turned red. [I know this because I have a small car with literally not rear end.] As I continued down US1, I was pulled over, maybe a quarter of a mile past the light when the officer turned on his lights. [Edit: This is going on the law that if you are in the intersection when the light is yellow, obviously, you have the right to continue on, which is how half of Miami makes its left-hand turns, though I was going straight on this occasion. I did not speed up, or slow down with hesitation, but keep going; I steadily kept my speed of 45 mph, which is the legal speed. Yes I know, people don't GO the speed limit, but I was because I was on the phone, so I try to drive particularly careful, HAHA, irony.]

Now, I will say that I was on the phone [with my mother, who was looking up my bank account balance, we were not talking at the time because she had set down the phone, so I wasn't actually paying attention to the phone itself], and the officer snidely remarked that if I had NOT been on my phone, maybe I would have noticed the light turning red. Last time I checked, talking on a phone while driving isn't illegal, not that I usually allow it, but I really needed to know if I had money, and since I had a while to go straight, it wouldn't be so bad for a minute or so. I mention this because my boyfriend, who works for DOC, thinks the cop just really hated that I was on a phone and wanted to get me... I dunno, we're paranoid.

He also tried to give me a second citation because my driver's license had not been updated. He ended up not filing that one because I explained that I was a student, not a permanent resident. Though he did take it away, he seemed unhappy about it, but that's my opinion.

Something else that bothered me was that when he pulled me over, another car showed up, and was shining lights all over in my car, not that it's illegal, I don't think, but I felt slightly harassed by the whole situation.

My last note on this is that though I was at the end of a pack of cars driving down the road, there had been a black Honda who was erratically lane changing and generally making itself a nuisance. Can I use this as a defense in court, that even though the yellow light is a few seconds, I was kind of keeping an eye on him, and when I saw that the light was yellow, I didn't feel I had sufficient time to safely stop my vehicle [even though I insist I was in the intersection at the time the light turned red]. I mean, driving isn't just one thing, I was obviously trying not to get into an accident, as well.

[Sorry, I tell every detail of everything, causing large amounts of words, bad habit sometimes...]

[racer72]

The only way I can describe it was that as soon as I PASSED THE CROSSWALK, into the intersection, it turned red.

This is a perfect dictionary description of running a red light. You cannot be anywhere in the intersection when the light turns red. Just because everyone else does it, that does not make it legal. Nothing in your post suggests the ticket is not valid nor warranted or that the officers did anything illegal. If you want to fight the ticket, I would suggest hiring a local attorney, one may find a loophole to get the charges reduced or dismissed. Your lack of knowledge of the rules of the road make you a poor candidate to fight the ticket on your own.

[divgradcurl]

Originally Posted by racer72

This is a perfect dictionary description of running a red light. You cannot be anywhere in the intersection when the light turns red. Just because everyone else does it, that does not make it legal. Nothing in your post suggests the ticket is not valid nor warranted or that the officers did anything illegal. If you want to fight the ticket, I would suggest hiring a local attorney, one may find a loophole to get the charges reduced or dismissed. Your lack of knowledge of the rules of the road make you a poor candidate to fight the ticket on your own.

I don't think this is generally correct. It certainly isn't correct in California, for example, and doesn't appear to be correct in Florida. The general rule is that you may not enter an intersection when the red light appears; there is nothing in the Florida statute, for example, that states that you must be clear of the intersection when the red light appears. I am not an expert on Florida law, but this appears to be the relevant statute, Florida Statute 316.075(3)(b):

1. Vehicular traffic facing a steady yellow signal is thereby warned that the related green movement is being terminated or that a red indication will be exhibited immediately thereafter when vehicular traffic shall not enter the intersection. (emphasis added)

[FlyingRon]

Well it sounds like when "the light suddenly turned red while I was crossing the crosswalk" that it probably did turn red before they entered the intersection. The whole point of that yellow ball is to allow you to slow down so you don't get caught by that nasty red one popping up righ as you are about to enter.

[Krizteenah]

However, like I said, I was in the intersection. The reason a yellow light is implemented is to give people time to clear the intersection. I have no doubt in my mind that this is legal. I'm just seeking any other help someone is willing to offer.

Also, this is not my assumption based on the "everybody does it" thing, I stated this to the officer and he said I was right [that entering the intersection at yellow is completely legal], but still insisted I was NOT in the intersection. I however, am sure that I was.

Basically, I'm kind of looking for how I'm supposed to prove my word against his and any suggestions pertaining to this.

I would appreciate not being harassed about my "lack of knowledge," thank you. [I follow the "If you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all" philosophy.] ^_^

Sidenote: You know that whole thing about innocent until proven guilty, and how the state is responsible for prosecution, technically the defendant is not the one who is supposed to have to defend himself, in our current judicial system? I mean, I know it is meant for more serious things, but is this not just another trial? though I think I'd get in trouble for this logic in court itself, so any opinions on this, I'd gladly take, and please, no flames, it's a logical question.

[Zigner]

Originally Posted by Krizteenah

Sidenote: You know that whole thing about innocent until proven guilty

Only applies IN court...not here.

and how the state is responsible for prosecution, technically the defendant is not the one who is supposed to have to defend himself, in our current judicial system?

Look at it this way. The state has to "prove" that you committed the violation you are charged with. How are they going to do that? With expert testimony from an expert witness. Now, the ball is in your court to discredit that expert testimony.
Can you defend yourself? Sure. But, a he-said, she-said situation is going to be VERY difficult for you to defend.

[Hey There]

12-29-07
Krizteenah
Going through a intersection on a yellow is agreed to by the officer as legal.
Your Post:I stated this to the officer and he said I was right [that entering the intersection at yellow is completely legal], but still insisted I was NOT in the intersection. I however, am sure that I was.
The issue is being cited for running a red light ,not if entering the intersection on a yellow is legal(It is)
If the officer isn't at the intersection on the cross street,
If the officer's view is obstructed by other cars,
It is obvious that the driver of the car is in a better position
To know if his car was in the intersection
When the signal was still yellow.
***********************************************
Further a formula to determine if the driver entered a intersection when the signal was yellow is detailed in Beat Your Ticket published NOLO in Chapter 11 (pages 26 & 27) along with cross-examination of the officer at trial.
Key elements of the Formula are:
Once the speed limit
The driver's speed
Distance the car was from the intersection when the green turned
yellow
IS ESTABLISHED by the officer's testimony
The speed of the driver's car per second can be found by
multiplying the speed of the driver's car by 1.47
Then the speed of the driver's car in seconds
can be divided into the number of feet the officer states the driver
was from the intersection when the light turned yellow.
This gives the number of seconds the driver had to enter the
intersection before the light turned red.
The driver can then prove that he entered the intersection while the
light was yellow IF the number of seconds he had to enter the
intersection is less than the time the yellow light was on.

Best Regards,
Hey There

[lwpat]

The judge will accept the officer's testimony and you will lose in court. Take the traffic school.

[Krizteenah]

Okay, I've got one more problem with this ticket I've received. Thanks you guys again for your opinions and suggestions, they are helpful.

Now, however, the clerk of courts somehow made a mistake and I wondered if anyone had anything to suggest. [I'm not even sure what I'm asking, but how do you handle something that isn't in your hands? You can't get a person on the phone to save your life down here.]

When I mailed in this ticket's request for trial, I mailed it in with another ticket at the same time. That ticket I have received confirmation and scheduled for trials, etc etc. but upon calling Miami-Dade's clerk of courts hotline to find the status of my red light violation since I haven't gotten any mail about it, it informs me that it is in delinquency.

Now, can we all join hands and exclaim, "Wtf?"

If I mailed it out in the same envelope, how do I remedy this? I can't "trace" the mail...

I have my pre-trial hearing tomorrow for my other ticket of the same envelope, so I guess I should talk to someone there? But who??