Right on Red at Crosswalk and Obstructed View

[French Kitty]

What is the name of your state? California.

If you:

1. come to red light at an intersection
2. make a complete stop behind the crosswalk
3. want to make a right turn and no signs prohibit you from doing so
4. cannot see to your far left because of the cars to your left

Can you inch into the crosswalk and stop there so that you can see to see to your left before turning right? Or is this considered blocking the crosswalk and illegal? Would you be ticketed for this? If so, are you supposed to just wait behind the crosswalk until the light turns green since you can't fully see to your left?

If you do inch forward and see that pedestrians are crossing from your far left (which you couldn't see before you inched forward), do you just stay where you are, partially in the crosswalk to yield the right of way to the pedestrians? Would you be ticketed for this?

I've read the CA traffic laws about not blocking a crosswalk and how to turn right at a red light, but they did not clearly answer my questions. Thank you.

 

[FlyingRon]

Of course you have to yield to pedestrians.

There's not constitutional right to right on red.
You must yield to pedestrians and other traffic. If you can't do both then yes you'll have to wait.

 

[French Kitty]

Thank you for the reply. But I understand that you must yield to pedestrians. My question is would you be ticketed for partially blocking the crosswalk since you had to stop after you inched forward and saw that there were pedestrians after you inched forward?

 

[French Kitty]

This is what I read in the code of laws about blocking crosswalk and making legal turns:

21970. (a) No person may stop a vehicle unnecessarily in a manner that causes the vehicle to block a marked or unmarked crosswalk or sidewalk.

(b) Subdivision (a) does not preclude the driver of a vehicle facing a steady circular red light from turning right or turning left from a one-way street onto a one-way street pursuant to subdivision (b) of Section 21453.

But I wanted to know if this means that if you inch forward and stop in a crosswalk because you could not see from behind the crosswalk, is this a violation of this code, especially if pedestrians are already in the crosswalk (but you couldn't see them until you inched forward)? Even though you obviously must yield, would the police still ticket you?

 

[CdwJava]

COULD they ticket you? Sure.

WOULD they? Maybe.

In court, the officer has to articulate your actions that violated the section cited.

What section were you cited for?

- Carl

 

[French Kitty]

It was actually a friend, not me, so I'm not sure. We got into a discussion about it, and I couldn't figure it out based on the wording of the law itself.

I guess I'm unsure about the word "unnecessarily" in the law, as in, "No person may stop a vehicle unnecessarily in a manner that causes the vehicle to block a marked or unmarked crosswalk or sidewalk." If you have to inch forward in order to see, is that stopping unnecessarily? Obviously if there are pedestrians, you have to stop. But what if you can't see them until you inched up? And what if pedestrians don't show up for another several seconds, but you are already in the crosswalk because you inched forward to see to your left so you could make a right on red? Are you in violation of the law?

The law also says that this "does not preclude the driver of a vehicle facing a steady circular red light from turning right or turning left from a one-way street onto a one-way street." But does this mean you can only keep moving over the crosswalk without stopping, so therefore you can only make a turn if you can see properly while stopped behind a crosswalk? This is almost never the case at a red light at a busy intersection. You almost always have to inch up to see, therefore you'd be stopped in the crosswalk.

Basically she was at a red, made a complete stop before the crosswalk, was signaling a right turn, inched up to see to her left, then was able to see pedestrians to her far left, so she stayed where she was (which was partially in the crosswalk) until they crossed. Is this illegal?

 

[The Occultist]

Once my dad came to a stop sign, and he purposely didn't stop behind the line, but a little after (still before the actual intersection) because there were bushes on the left corner that were obstructing his view of oncoming traffic. He did come to a complete stop, but not in the right place. The officer who pulled him over for it said that he needs to come to a complete stop behind the line, and then may inch forward and make another complete stop to observe traffic. Don't know if that really means anything to your situation or not.