Right Turn on Red Arrow in MA

[belfento]

In Massachusetts, is it legal to make a right turn on a red arrow, after coming to a complete stop?

[Zigner]

Originally Posted by belfento

In Massachusetts, is it legal to make a right turn on a red arrow, after coming to a complete stop?

Yes, provided there is no sign to the contrary...and provided that you stop BEFORE entering the intersection and/or crossing the "limit line".

Why do you ask?

[Orcons]

Originally Posted by belfento

In Massachusetts, is it legal to make a right turn on a red arrow, after coming to a complete stop?

No, not unless there is signage to that effect.

[Zigner]

Originally Posted by Orcons

No, not unless there is signage to that effect.

Please post a cite (not trying to be rude...but the info I found said exactly the opposite)

[The Occultist]

OP, if you were charged with a specific offense, please cite the statute number(s) you were charged with

[Orcons]

Originally Posted by Zigner

Please post a cite (not trying to be rude...but the info I found said exactly the opposite)

Ah, but you yourself admitted that you only did 7 seconds of research. I live here.

Look at page 42 of the Mass Ammendments to the MUTCD. Next time I will expect you to do your own research, even if it takes more than 7 seconds.

[mwbarton]

Your reference agrees with Zigner

a. Drivers, facing a steady CIRCULAR RED signal and NO TURN ON RED SIGN shall
stop at a clearly marked stop line, but if none, before entering the crosswalk on the near
side of the intersection, or if none, then before entering the intersection and shall remain
standing until an indication to proceed is shown except as provided in (b) below.
b. When no sign is in place prohibiting a right turn, or a left turn from a one way street to
another one way street, drivers facing a steady circular red signal may cautiously enter
the intersection to make the right turn, or left turn from a one way street to another one
way street, after shopping as provided in (a) above. Such drivers shall yield the right-ofway
to pedestrians lawfully within an adjacent crosswalk and to other traffic lawfully
using the intersection.

There is no reference to a red arrow on page 42.

[Zigner]

This is what I based my post on:

PART I. ADMINISTRATION OF THE GOVERNMENT

TITLE XIV. PUBLIC WAYS AND WORKS

CHAPTER 89. LAW OF THE ROAD

Chapter 89: Section 8. Right-of-way at intersecting ways; turning on red signals

Section 8. When two vehicles approach or enter an intersection of any ways, as defined in section one of chapter ninety, at approximately the same instant, the operator of the vehicle on the left shall yield the right-of-way to the vehicle on the right. Any operator intending to turn left, in an intersection, across the path or lane of vehicles approaching from the opposite direction shall, before turning, yield the right-of-way until such time as the left turn can be made with reasonable safety. Any operator of a vehicle entering a rotary intersection shall yield the right-of-way to any vehicle already in the intersection. The foregoing provisions of this section shall not apply when an operator is otherwise directed by a police officer, or by a traffic regulating sign, device or signal lawfully erected and maintained in accordance with the provisions of section two of chapter eighty-five and, where so required with the written approval of the department of highways and while such approval is in effect.

At any intersection on ways, as defined in section one of chapter ninety, in which vehicular traffic is facing a steady red indication in a traffic control signal, the driver of a vehicle which is stopped as close as practicable at the entrance to the crosswalk or the near side of the intersections or, if none, then at the entrance to the intersection in obedience to such red or stop signal, may make either (1) a right turn or (2) if on a one-way street may make a left turn to another one-way street, but shall yield the right-of-way to pedestrians and other traffic proceeding as directed by the signal at said intersection, except that a city or town, subject to section two of chapter eighty-five, by rules, orders, ordinances, or by-laws, and the department of highways on state highways or on ways at their intersections with a state highway, may prohibit any such turns against a red or stop signal at any such intersection, and such prohibition shall be effective when a sign is erected at such intersection giving notice thereof. Any person who violates the provisions of this paragraph shall be punished by a fine of not less than thirty-five dollars.


(Retrieved from: http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/89-8.htm)

[Zigner]

Originally Posted by Orcons

Ah, but you yourself admitted that you only did 7 seconds of research. I live here.

7 seconds of Google is all it took to find the CORRECT answer

[Orcons]

Originally Posted by mwbarton

Your reference agrees with Zigner



There is no reference to a red arrow on page 42.

That must have taken you even less than 7 seconds.

The next paragraph, on the same page, says:

c. Drivers, facing a steady RED ARROW indication may not enter the intersection to make the movement indicated by such arrow, and unless entering the intersection to make such other movement as is permitted by other indications shown at the same time, shall stop at a clearly marked stop line, but if none, before entering the crosswalk on the near side of the intersection, or if none, then before entering the intersection and shall remain standing until an indication to make the movement indicated by such arrow is shown.

[Orcons]

Originally Posted by Zigner

7 seconds of Google is all it took to find the CORRECT answer

Now read the quote from the Mass Amendments to the MUTCD above, then go back to that document and read the section on legal authority.

Your answer was wrong and the biggest shame is I have spent considerably more than 7 seconds proving that to you.

Have a good day.

[Zigner]

Originally Posted by Orcons

That must have taken you even less than 7 seconds.

The next paragraph, on the same page, says:

c. Drivers, facing a steady RED ARROW indication may not enter the intersection to make the movement indicated by such arrow, and unless entering the intersection to make such other movement as is permitted by other indications shown at the same time, shall stop at a clearly marked stop line, but if none, before entering the crosswalk on the near side of the intersection, or if none, then before entering the intersection and shall remain standing until an indication to make the movement indicated by such arrow is shown.

There is no "next paragraph" on the same page.
But thank you for providing the cite...even though it is incomplete.

[Humbolt]

Page 81 of Massachusetts Drivers Manual (revised Jan. 2009) states:

Steady Red Arrow
"A steady red arrow means the same as a steady red, circular signal (see the preceding Steady Red section), but a steady red arrow applies only to vehicles intending to proceed in the direction of the arrow. The same rules for “turning on red” apply."

[Orcons]

Originally Posted by Humbolt

Page 81 of Massachusetts Drivers Manual (revised Jan. 2009) states:

Steady Red Arrow
"A steady red arrow means the same as a steady red, circular signal (see the preceding Steady Red section), but a steady red arrow applies only to vehicles intending to proceed in the direction of the arrow. The same rules for “turning on red” apply."

The Driver's Manual is not law. You might very well find a sympathetic magistrate who would let you off if you said that you relied on that, but you need to look at the statutes to see what the law is. The statute quoted above may have been amended but if it hasn't it still seems pretty clear what the law says.

[Zigner]

Originally Posted by Orcons

The Driver's Manual is not law. You might very well find a sympathetic magistrate who would let you off if you said that you relied on that, but you need to look at the statutes to see what the law is. The statute quoted above may have been amended but if it hasn't it still seems pretty clear what the law says.

Yes, it is clear. And it says you are wrong. You made stuff up and hope we buy it.

Taken unedited, uncut and otherwise unmolested from http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/89-8.htm:

PART I. ADMINISTRATION OF THE GOVERNMENT

TITLE XIV. PUBLIC WAYS AND WORKS

CHAPTER 89. LAW OF THE ROAD

Chapter 89: Section 8. Right-of-way at intersecting ways; turning on red signals

Section 8. When two vehicles approach or enter an intersection of any ways, as defined in section one of chapter ninety, at approximately the same instant, the operator of the vehicle on the left shall yield the right-of-way to the vehicle on the right. Any operator intending to turn left, in an intersection, across the path or lane of vehicles approaching from the opposite direction shall, before turning, yield the right-of-way until such time as the left turn can be made with reasonable safety. Any operator of a vehicle entering a rotary intersection shall yield the right-of-way to any vehicle already in the intersection. The foregoing provisions of this section shall not apply when an operator is otherwise directed by a police officer, or by a traffic regulating sign, device or signal lawfully erected and maintained in accordance with the provisions of section two of chapter eighty-five and, where so required with the written approval of the department of highways and while such approval is in effect.

At any intersection on ways, as defined in section one of chapter ninety, in which vehicular traffic is facing a steady red indication in a traffic control signal, the driver of a vehicle which is stopped as close as practicable at the entrance to the crosswalk or the near side of the intersections or, if none, then at the entrance to the intersection in obedience to such red or stop signal, may make either (1) a right turn or (2) if on a one-way street may make a left turn to another one-way street, but shall yield the right-of-way to pedestrians and other traffic proceeding as directed by the signal at said intersection, except that a city or town, subject to section two of chapter eighty-five, by rules, orders, ordinances, or by-laws, and the department of highways on state highways or on ways at their intersections with a state highway, may prohibit any such turns against a red or stop signal at any such intersection, and such prohibition shall be effective when a sign is erected at such intersection giving notice thereof. Any person who violates the provisions of this paragraph shall be punished by a fine of not less than thirty-five dollars.

That's it. No phantom paragraph c...no reference to red arrows. That's it.