School Zone Speeding Trap

[janabanana]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Texas

Our middle school has a school zone in front of it that starts more than an hour before dismissal. It is nearly half a mile long, perfectly straight road with 20 foot shoulders. They set up a speed trap regularly, and pull almost every car, because it is also only marked by a sign near the corner (and if you are watching where you are aiming the car it is easy to miss the sign on the side). The sign reads school zone 20 then in small print 2:00-3:45.
Is there anything that can be done, especially to change the time or the length of the school zone or at the very least the markings.
I gather it would take a miracle to erase the ticket for going exactly 30 (the posted speed limit) in the "SCHOOL ZONE".
Thank you

[The Occultist]

If it's easy for you to miss the sign, I bet it's just as easy to miss the child running out into the middle of the street

[cyjeff]

Further, if you drive past there often enough to KNOW there is a "speed trap" there... why would you be doing 30 over?

You can't even claim bad signage... because you drive there very often.

[janabanana]

cyjeff and The Occultist, In response to your comments, Actually I asked what could be done to limit the SCHOOL ZONE to when children are getting out of school, instead of an hour before. I wonder if you would be thinking about going 20 on a bright sunny day on a straight stretch of road at 2:15. There weren't any children to "MISS". Besides, I described the road as being straight, with 20 foot wide shoulders. And I said the car was moving at 30 MPH (the posted non SCHOOL ZONE speed), NOT 30 MPH over the limit.
AND I didn't say I knew about the speed trap before hand. AND I didn't say I drive the road all the time (I DON'T), what, can't I find out it's a speed trap AFTER the fact? AND none of this has anything to do with my question, which was HOW DO I GO ABOUT CHANGING THE SCHOOL ZONE TIMING TO WHEN THE SCHOOL IS GETTING OUT? OR BARRING THAT, CHANGING THE SIGNAGE TO MAKE IT NOTICEABLE (the current sign is on the corner of the roundabout, no flashing light)?

[Zigner]

I used to go to school an hour early sometimes. So did my kids. So did my friends. So did my kids' friends.

Talk to your local municipality about making the sign more noticeable.

[VeronicaLodge]

the school zones by me are 15 mph so be happy you get to go 20

[I_Got_Banned]

Originally Posted by Zigner

I used to go to school an hour early sometimes. So did my kids. So did my friends. So did my kids' friends.

Talk to your local municipality about making the sign more noticeable.

A bunch of nerds... J/K.

Janabanana,

They say a picture's worth a thousand words"...

Take a couple of "approach" pictures of the sign in question, and show those to the Judge. It might help your case. Those pictures might also come in handy as you attempt to contact the authority responsible for erecting and maintaining traffic signs.

As far as the time that the school zone is in effect, that might be dictated by the wording of the vehicle code as I don't think it is set randomly!

Good luck!

[PhlawedPharmacy]

Speed traps are known to be exactly what you describe. High opportunity areas for cops that become that way because the restrictions don't match the driving conditions in any intuitive manner. The more straight and visible the road, matched with intolerable low speeds guarantees a law enforcement presence. You feel like a complete deusche driving that speed, but deusche you must.

If you can change the world with a single post, you got my admiration.

[I_Got_Banned]

Originally Posted by PhlawedPharmacy

Speed traps are known to be exactly what you describe. High opportunity areas for cops that become that way because the restrictions don't match the driving conditions in any intuitive manner.

There is an opposing point of view that may suggest that those "conditions" are more condusive to higher speeds, less reaction times, more out of control vehicles, and more accidents that may also result in more fatalaties... Therefore justifying a higher (suggesting "more visible") law enforcement presence which in turn might result in a few citations for those drivers who choose to be intuitive about their driving.

Now, add a school to the equation, you'll end up with an even lower speed limit, more intuitive drivers receiving more tickets, of which a few will cry "foul, this is a way to generate more revenue; this is a speed trap"

[janabanana]

Thank you to those who actually read my post and replied to it. I will look up the codes, because I would guess (intuitively) that school zones aren't set up to start more than 1/2 mile away from the school. I know in UT they revised some School Zones (or all, I'm not sure), so that they start immediately before the school and end right after. . . where kids are crossing the road. What I was hoping to receive, was advice on HOW to get the same. The school zone in question is just under 1 mile long, and applies to 6 different streets. The morning times are actually applicable, but the afternoon ones seem excessively long.

To the person who went to school early, lot's of kids do that, for sports among other reasons, but did you also LEAVE middle school an hour early? It was 2 p.m.. As for the sign, my goal was to find out how to get the better sign up, I'm clueless (I personally want to put up neon signs every 50 feet or so reminding everyone it is still a school zone).

Thanks for the response. And don't worry, I kick myself hard enough that you don't have to.

If anyone knows how reduce the distance of the school zone and the time, please let me know, in the meantime I will try again to find the codes (if anyone knows how to find them, let me know that, too).
Thanks again.

[Zigner]

Originally Posted by janabanana

To the person who went to school early, lot's of kids do that, for sports among other reasons, but did you also LEAVE middle school an hour early? It was 2 p.m..

That's the funny thing about schools...
Kids tend to come and go at (seemingly) random times.

[Dougthegreat]

Originally Posted by Zigner

That's the funny thing about schools...
Kids tend to come and go at (seemingly) random times.

Really? Sheesh, no wonder kids are scoring so low on tests.

[Zigner]

Originally Posted by Dougthegreat

Really? Sheesh, no wonder kids are scoring so low on tests.

Really, I was kind of thinking of doctor's appointments, etc. If you have 600 kids and each of them takes 1 school day off, then you can easily have a few kids a day out at "random" times...
I doubt that has any effect on test scores. Nor does it pertain to the subject of this thread.

[patstew]

If anyone knows how reduce the distance of the school zone and the time, please let me know, in the meantime I will try again to find the codes (if anyone knows how to find them, let me know that, too).
Thanks again.

Perhaps you missed Zigner's answer to this question -- you should contact your local municipality. In my town, you'd start with the city clerk and eventually petition the city council to make the change. YMMV.

[Maestro64]

Originally Posted by janabanana

If anyone knows how reduce the distance of the school zone and the time, please let me know, in the meantime I will try again to find the codes (if anyone knows how to find them, let me know that, too).
Thanks again.

To get you answer, you need to research the MUTCD which is the rules behind traffic control devices which school zone fall under. MUTCD are federally mandated guideline which all states are required to follow including TX. They have adopted these rules and must follow them otherwise the laws around them can not enforced. This was done to stop local governments from setting up their own rules and ticketing people who pass through their town. It is all about interstate commerce and since all governments at all levels have accepted federal fund they are legal bound by these rules. Some will claim they are not, but they usually lose in court at higher levels.

Here it link to help you understand

[url]http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/index.htm[/url]

Here is the TX version of the rules and it has the required section on school zones

[url]http://www.dot.state.tx.us/publications/traffic/2006part4.pdf[/url]

In the TX requirement is set forth distance and time periods, kind of encrypted, but it clearly stated an engineering traffic stuff must be done. It was not then any violation could be challenge on these facts.

From you description you have classic ticket trap design to produce as many tickets as possible.