Seat Belt Ticket

[GLM]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Ohio

I have been driving in Ohio for many years, and this is the second time I have been ticketed for a seat belt violation. This particular time, I was going a few miles per hour over the speed limit, but the officer didn't ticket me for speed, just the seat belt. I had it on by the time he stopped me, but he said he could tell I didn't have it on when I passed him, and I knew that arguing the point was useless. My driving record is pretty much spotless otherwise. I have a couple questions, but let me start by asking anyone who plans to ride me for being stupid and not wearing my seat belt to stay out of this thread, or at least keep your opinions about seat belt use to yourself. I have no interest in hearing all the reasons why I should have to wear it. I believe strongly that legislating a person's personal safety is a very slippery slope, and if left unchecked, our government will soon be legislating our diets, our hobbies, our sex lives, and pretty much everything else. So, to anyone who thinks that our government has the right to force me to wear a seat belt, please just keep your opinion to yourself, and when YOUR rights are violated, you can ask ME to help you ...

I would have gladly taken the ticket for speed and dealt with that... I WAS speeding, and speeding is dangerous to OTHER people.

Now, my first question .... if I don't contest this ticket, does anyone know if my insurance company will raise my rates or eliminate my "safe driver" discount? The officer told me, while making small talk with me and trying to make the $110 citiation feel good going in, that there were no points but it would appear on my record. He also said my insurance rates SHOULDN'T go up, but since he didn't have a problem violating my rights by issuing me a citation in the first place, I have very little faith in his judgement.

Secondly, does anyone know whether I would have any chance of winning the case if I took it to court? I know there's always the chance that the officer may not appear, and I know that I could get an atty and probably beat it that way, but I'm just asking if anyone out there has any personal experience with contesting these citations on their own. My plan of attack will depend largely on what I find out about the insurance implications. If it's going to have insurance implication, I'll bite the bullet, call my atty, and let him handle it. If not, I'd really just like to get a chance to voice my opinion about the subject in front of a judge and the citizens in the court room. I don't have a problem paying the court costs if there's any chance I could convince a judge or even one person in that court room that the state has no right to fine citizens for failing to protect themselves with a seat belt.

So, let's hear it folks .... and remember .... we have the right to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. It makes me VERY happy to drive un-belted, fly my airplane, white-water raft, sky-dive, scuba-dive, smoke cigars, drink beer, eat fatty foods, and do a lot of other very "dangerous" things, all of which I pay dearly to my insurance company for. So, please don't try to tell me why the state was justified to ticket me for not strapping myself in to my car.

Oh yeah, and one more question ....

If I stop doing all of this "dangeous" stuff, when can I cancel all of my insurance, or at least see a lower price? I'll bet I'd be waiting a long time for that .....

[The Occultist]

Originally Posted by GLM

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Ohio

I have been driving in Ohio for many years, and this is the second time I have been ticketed for a seat belt violation.

Second? You don't learn very well, do you.

This particular time, I was going a few miles per hour over the speed limit, but the officer didn't ticket me for speed, just the seat belt.

Wow, what a nice officer! Many officers will not cut breaks like that.

I had it on by the time he stopped me, but he said he could tell I didn't have it on when I passed him, and I knew that arguing the point was useless.

Oh, I get it, you like to be a rebel, but but then become a coward when faced with the law. Good for you.

My driving record is pretty much spotless otherwise.

Super.

I have a couple questions, but let me start by asking anyone who plans to ride me for being stupid and not wearing my seat belt to stay out of this thread, or at least keep your opinions about seat belt use to yourself.

Oh, unfortunately, you have now accessed the internet. Do you understand what that means? It essentially means that in this area, you are SoL. If there's a post you don't care to read, don't read it. It's that easy.

I have no interest in hearing all the reasons why I should have to wear it. I believe strongly that legislating a person's personal safety is a very slippery slope, and if left unchecked, our government will soon be legislating our diets, our hobbies, our sex lives, and pretty much everything else. So, to anyone who thinks that our government has the right to force me to wear a seat belt, please just keep your opinion to yourself, and when YOUR rights are violated, you can ask ME to help you ...

And we have no interest in hearing about your conspiracy theories, so you can keep those to yourself.

I would have gladly taken the ticket for speed and dealt with that... I WAS speeding, and speeding is dangerous to OTHER people.

Oh, sorry, but you don't get to go to court and say I don't like this law, so dismiss the ticket, but why don't we go ahead and charge me for this other violation.

Now, my first question .... if I don't contest this ticket, does anyone know if my insurance company will raise my rates or eliminate my "safe driver" discount?

You didn't figure this out the first time you get a seatbelt ticket? Wow, you really don't learn!

Seatbelt violations do not give points. Whether or not they eliminate your "safe driver" discount is up to your insurance company, and as such is not a legal matter, so ask them.

The officer told me, while making small talk with me and trying to make the $110 citiation feel good going in, that there were no points but it would appear on my record. He also said my insurance rates SHOULDN'T go up, but since he didn't have a problem violating my rights by issuing me a citation in the first place, I have very little faith in his judgement.

Excuse me, but what rights did he violate? You do know that driving is NOT a right, right? It's a privilege, and to be allowed that privilege, you must follow the rules as laid out by the government. Your failure to do so means you will face charges, and it is the officer's job (read, he gets his paycheck to support his family by following the rules spelled out for him) to issue those charges. This is not a violation of rights. If you don't like it (and I swear I have NEVER said this to anybody EVER before), you can leave the country.

Secondly, does anyone know whether I would have any chance of winning the case if I took it to court?

It's always possible.

I know there's always the chance that the officer may not appear, and I know that I could get an atty and probably beat it that way, but I'm just asking if anyone out there has any personal experience with contesting these citations on their own.

Here's what will likely go down in court, based on my observations. The officer will state that he saw you operating your vehicle without the use of a seatbelt. You will state that you were wearing your seatbelt. Unless you have some video evidence or something that proves you were wearing the seatbelt the whole time and the video further proves that the video took place at the time of stop, then the only evidence the judge will have will be your testimony, and the officer's testimony. You will be viewed as a biased witness because you have something to gain by winning your case. The officer will not be affected in the least no matter what outcome your trial has, and as such he will be viewed as an unbiased witness for the state; guess whose testimony will most likely be accepted?

As for the officer not showing up, please note that this is not likely as officers get overtime pay for their court appearances. So, while it's possible the officer may not show up, I wouldn't go into the event banking on that.

As for getting an attorney, I wouldn't do that unless you find out that your insurance rates truly will be affected. The cost of the attorney will not be worth the ticket, or more likely, the cost of the perhaps slightly reduced fees.

My plan of attack will depend largely on what I find out about the insurance implications. If it's going to have insurance implication, I'll bite the bullet, call my atty, and let him handle it. If not, I'd really just like to get a chance to voice my opinion about the subject in front of a judge and the citizens in the court room. I don't have a problem paying the court costs if there's any chance I could convince a judge or even one person in that court room that the state has no right to fine citizens for failing to protect themselves with a seat belt.

I'd be surprised if the judge allows you to give such a speech. This is a civil infraction, not a criminal violation, so the trials you see on tv, where there are opening arguments and closing arguments and all the fancy stuff will be nothing like your traffic court. The judge will likely tell you to be quiet, and your refusal to do so could lead to Contempt charges.

So, let's hear it folks .... and remember .... we have the right to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. It makes me VERY happy to drive un-belted, fly my airplane, white-water raft, sky-dive, scuba-dive, smoke cigars, drink beer, eat fatty foods, and do a lot of other very "dangerous" things, all of which I pay dearly to my insurance company for. So, please don't try to tell me why the state was justified to ticket me for not strapping myself in to my car.

Oh yeah, and one more question ....

If I stop doing all of this "dangeous" stuff, when can I cancel all of my insurance, or at least see a lower price? I'll bet I'd be waiting a long time for that .....

The state is justified. I don't care about your safety, so I won't be touching that, but the state is justified in writing the ticket because it's still the law regarding something that is a privilege, not a right.

[GLM]

Thanks Mr. Occult, or Senior Member, whoever or whatever you may be or want to be called. You answered a lot of my questions in one way or another, with your lengthy, but somewhat rude reply. In response, I'll try to be brief....

First of all, no, I don't "learn" very fast at all when it comes to our government tromping all over me. Call driving a priviledge if you want, but the simple fact of the matter is that seat belt laws are all about revenue. The news is full of stories lately about how states are upgrading their seat bellt laws from secondary to primary offenses, and expect to generate millions of dollars worth of revenue to offset their budget shortfalls. My city has OPENLY stated that they intend to upgrade their red-light cameras to include speed meters, SPECIFICALLY for revenue generation. While I have a particular contempt for people who risk everyone's lives blowing through red lights, my city isn't citing increased safety as their reason for the upgrade, just their budget shortfalls. This amounts to a backdoor tax in my opinion, and I'm getting sick and tired of watching our government pick people's pockets. The "right" I feel was violated was my right not to be hit with what I feel amounts to a hidden tax, and my right to risk my life in any way that I see fit. Resistance to this sort of thing has to start somewhere. If I can't have an impact by having my say in court, then I'll find some other way. But one thing is for sure ... I won't be "educated" or have my behavior modified by my government. They are supposed to serve us, not tax us to death and oppress us ...

Secondly, yes, I learned a little about the internet today, well before your post I might add, when I read several other threads on this site. I learned that sites like this are loaded with people who claim they are ready to help others, when in fact, they are just a bunch of sad, bitter, bored people with time on their hands, waiting to evicerate some poor old soul like me who is foolish enough to wander into their lair. When I posted, I was simply venting my frustration with the direction our society is going, and hoping to hear some encouraging words from someone who may share my feelings. I was also hoping to receive some constructive advice. After what I read today, I was expecting a response like yours, and you certainly didn't disappoint me.

Thirdly, while we're calling each other names, you called me a coward, I'll call you a prick. Although you did manage to shed a little light on my situation, quite by accident I'm sure, you've ended what I was hoping would be an open and informative dialogue on this subject for everyone, and driven another new, and potential future, user off this site. I hope you're happy with yourself. But then, this is what you thrive on isn't it? Bitter exchanges and name calling. I'll close this thread, chalk it up to experience, and next time, I'll just consult an atty and get some real advice from someone who at least has some manners ....