Seat belt worn under arm pit

[Dale1950]

What is the name of your state? California

My 17 y/o daughter received a ticket for wearing her seat belt under her arm pit. I don't think I have a case to fight the ticket, although I think it was pretty rude of the officer to not give her a warning since this was her first violation for this. I suspect there are a lot of us who didn't realize you could get ticketed for this. I thought as long as you were wearing the seat belt you were fulfilling the letter of the law. So, I'm not really fighting this charge. What I do want to pursue is the following: After issuing the ticket, the officer made an unacceptable comment to my daughter. He first asked her if there was a reason why she wasn't wearing the belt over her shoulder. She said it was beacuse it was uncomfortable for her, in that it rubbed her neck. He said that it would be more uncomfortable if she went through the windshield. Then he told her not to worry because "your legs look great." I feel this was totally inappropriate behavior for a police officer, and I have a date set in court to discuss this with the judge. My daughter had two or three friends in the car who heard the officer, so we do have witnesses which we plan on bringing with us to court. My question is this. If the officer denies that he said it in court, what recourse do I have? I have witnesses, so that should be enough, but what would the next step be in the legal process if that happens? What do I say to the judge if that happens? Thanks for your advice.

Dale

[The Occultist]

Nothing you've said provides any grounds with which to have the charges dismissed. The judge may be sympathetic to the fact that it is a first violation and she was confused about how a seatbelt must be worn, and as such may show some leniency, but he doesn't have to.

As for the comments you feel were inappropriate, this has NOTHING to do with your daughter's ticket, and it will be foolish to attempt to bring it up in court. If you want to do something about it, you may submit a personnel complaint with the officer's agency.

Stay tuned for other responses, especially those from Carl! CA is his domain after all

[moburkes]

While the comment may have been inappropriate, there was nothing illegal about it.

[Zigner]

Furthermore, I don't even feel that the comment was inappropriate when taken in context. Put the conversation together as it probably flowed...
Officer "You're going to be uncomfortable if you go through the windshield, but your legs will look great".
What that amounts to is a firm warning about the dangers of improper use of a seatbelt.

[justalayman]

I have to agree with Zigner here.
It was a bit tacky and obviously was easily miscontrued but if you think about it, if she is in an accident with a seatbelt improperly used, her face could get uglied up pretty bad but "your legs look great". Kind of like when selling a used car and telling the buyer, "ya, I know it smokes real bad, but the AC works great". Minimizing the bad while mentioning a strong point that obviously does not remove the bad point but gives one a "good" point to observe and allow ignorance of the "bad" point.


It sounds like it was simply meant to make a point and misconstrued.

[CdwJava]

Originally Posted by Dale1950

I don't think I have a case to fight the ticket, although I think it was pretty rude of the officer to not give her a warning since this was her first violation for this.

It is not "rude" to issue a citation as opposed to a warning. The officer exercised his or her discretion in an apparently lawful manner.

I suspect there are a lot of us who didn't realize you could get ticketed for this. I thought as long as you were wearing the seat belt you were fulfilling the letter of the law.

The seatbelt must be worn properly. If it is not installed and worn properly, it fails to have the preventative properties it is intended to. In fact, it could cause greater injury when worn improperly.

If your daughter has a medical condition that requires her to wear the seatbelt in a manner other than prescribed, there is a waiver process through the DMV, I believe. It will require a notice from her doctor.

After issuing the ticket, the officer made an unacceptable comment to my daughter. He first asked her if there was a reason why she wasn't wearing the belt over her shoulder. She said it was beacuse it was uncomfortable for her, in that it rubbed her neck. He said that it would be more uncomfortable if she went through the windshield. Then he told her not to worry because "your legs look great."

Okay ... *I* wouldn't have made the comment, but, I think the point the officer had attempted to make was that her face and torso would have been mangled going through the windshield. Unfortunately, it may have come across the wrong way.

However, as was pointed out, this is not a legal issue it is a personnel matter. The judge has NO jurisdiction over that matter, and cannot directly address the comment. The officer's agency DOES have jurisdiction over the officer and his conduct. A personnel complaint with the agency would be the proper venue to complain.

I feel this was totally inappropriate behavior for a police officer, and I have a date set in court to discuss this with the judge. My daughter had two or three friends in the car who heard the officer, so we do have witnesses which we plan on bringing with us to court.

What exactly are you speaking to the judge about? Your daughter and her witnesses can address the court on the citation ... but it would essentially be a "guilty with an explanation" argument, and not a defense. The issue of the comment by the officer would be outside the scope of the hearing.

If this is some special appointment about the officer's statement, I am surprised the judge is hearing it because he has no standing to do anything about it.

My question is this. If the officer denies that he said it in court, what recourse do I have?

What recourse do you want? If he does not recall saying it, that's not perjury. And since it is not relevant to the violation, it certainly would not effect your daughter's infraction unless she or her attorney (if you want to go through the expense of an attorney) can successfully challenge the officer's truthfulness and veracity based on this.

Remember, YOU cannot appear on your daughter's behalf - this is her matter. An attorney can appear for her, but you cannot. Since you are not a witness, you have no right to even be heard in the hearing.

If you have taken exception to the officer's comment, speak to his supervisor or ask to make a personnel complaint. Even if the judge thinks the comment was the rudest thing he'd heard (and he wouldn't), there would be nothing he could do about it.

- Carl

[CourtClerk]

As always, Carl's answer was PERFECT... however, I want to point one thing out...

Remember, YOU cannot appear on your daughter's behalf - this is her matter. An attorney can appear for her, but you cannot. Since you are not a witness, you have no right to even be heard in the hearing.

Daughter will be heard in juvenile traffic court (17 y/o), parents can and have to appear with the child.

However, mom, you are going overboard on this one IMO and I hope you never have to figure out what the officer really meant by his comment because as I suspect, it is just as the other posters have said. Perhaps you and/or your daughter have never been the least bit sarcastic in anything you have done.

[CdwJava]

Originally Posted by CourtClerk

As always, Carl's answer was PERFECT... however, I want to point one thing out...

Thanks.

Daughter will be heard in juvenile traffic court (17 y/o), parents can and have to appear with the child.

Well ... it depends on the county. In both San Diego and my current county, juvenile traffic matters are generally heard in the normal traffic court and not in a juvenile court. I'm not sure where the poster is from, but it could be heard in a non-juvenile environment, though the parents would still generally have to be present.

Oddly, such things vary by county. In mine juvenile traffic matters were heard in juvenile court until July 1st of this year.

- Carl

[1000Sparks]

hasn't these "inappropriate" comments gotten a little out of hand with some people?

How would your daughter have felt if he said she had ugly legs??