Small Town Justice

[mojo41]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? ca.
I logged in at this forum, for what seems like a year ago, actually , in March, "101 and counting." Since then, I've pleaded not guilty, gone to trial, and am still waiting for the verdict. It will be guilty, theres no way the court is going to let go of this hefty fine.
They assumed my recollection of the citing officer would be hazy, at best. But I saw him again, on the day of my arraignment, busy setting up his radar/lidar on the side of the road. Also, when the judge ,at arraignment, set the court date for trial, both he and his clerk tried to agree, couldn't, asked again if I was willing to forgo a speedy trial, I answered "no", again, and of course it was obviously not good for him or the officer.
I had a "pro-tem" sitting in, no court reporter, cutbacks, and an officer who said he was theone who cited me. He was'nt. But he sat there and testified on the previous three cases ahead of me just as if it was him. No-one said anything, but I did. In the court room, sitting beside two other accused, I simply said he's not the right cop! I said it loudly, and often, until finally the officer sitting directly in back of me, motioned for the "officer" to meet outside the court. During that recess, the one chp in back of me, argued with a lot of hand movement, loud voice, the other "testifying officer", seemed to be trying to calm down the chp. The door swung open unexpectedly, and EVERY ONE heard the chp shout out my last name. It came so loudly and fast that I instinctively answered "here". A lot of laughter followed, but then I realized what may have been happening, Now I'm sure of it.
Now as I understand it, this new, small town form of justice, is a guaranteed win for the court, and the hell withthe law, it just gets in the way at times.
If I had'nt been the one sitting there, I wouldn't believe this. I don't blame anyone for thinking that I lie. But Maestro, Jimbo, IGOTBANNED, and all of you special advisors, your help was a total and complete trip, the encouragement alone made me a more determined person then I would have been without you. I knew it was time to update you all, wish it was better news.
Okay, so what do I do now? This cannot continue to happen, it has to be addressed, but what should I do other than appeal, and how does one go about it?
I tried to enlist an attourney in the town, he declined, after he looked at my file.
The pro-tem said he would mail his verdict, he also said he would "take under advisement and consideration" all my motions for dismissal.
Thanks for at least reading this, mojo41

[Jim_bo]

Originally Posted by mojo41

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? ca.
I logged in at this forum, for what seems like a year ago, actually , in March, "101 and counting." Since then, I've pleaded not guilty, gone to trial, and am still waiting for the verdict. It will be guilty, theres no way the court is going to let go of this hefty fine.
They assumed my recollection of the citing officer would be hazy, at best. But I saw him again, on the day of my arraignment, busy setting up his radar/lidar on the side of the road. Also, when the judge ,at arraignment, set the court date for trial, both he and his clerk tried to agree, couldn't, asked again if I was willing to forgo a speedy trial, I answered "no", again, and of course it was obviously not good for him or the officer.
I had a "pro-tem" sitting in, no court reporter, cutbacks, and an officer who said he was theone who cited me. He was'nt. But he sat there and testified on the previous three cases ahead of me just as if it was him. No-one said anything, but I did. In the court room, sitting beside two other accused, I simply said he's not the right cop! I said it loudly, and often, until finally the officer sitting directly in back of me, motioned for the "officer" to meet outside the court. During that recess, the one chp in back of me, argued with a lot of hand movement, loud voice, the other "testifying officer", seemed to be trying to calm down the chp. The door swung open unexpectedly, and EVERY ONE heard the chp shout out my last name. It came so loudly and fast that I instinctively answered "here". A lot of laughter followed, but then I realized what may have been happening, Now I'm sure of it.
Now as I understand it, this new, small town form of justice, is a guaranteed win for the court, and the hell withthe law, it just gets in the way at times.
If I had'nt been the one sitting there, I wouldn't believe this. I don't blame anyone for thinking that I lie. But Maestro, Jimbo, IGOTBANNED, and all of you special advisors, your help was a total and complete trip, the encouragement alone made me a more determined person then I would have been without you. I knew it was time to update you all, wish it was better news.
Okay, so what do I do now? This cannot continue to happen, it has to be addressed, but what should I do other than appeal, and how does one go about it?
I tried to enlist an attourney in the town, he declined, after he looked at my file.
The pro-tem said he would mail his verdict, he also said he would "take under advisement and consideration" all my motions for dismissal.
Thanks for at least reading this, mojo41

Mojo,

Good to see you back!!

Are you saying the chp cop, who wasn't the cop that gave you the ticket, testified against you in trial? If so, that is a HUGE issue!! That cop could be subject to disciplinary actions as well as criminal actions. He would have had to commit willful perjury to testify.

Let us know what the verdict is. I think you may be pleasantly surprised. If it is not guilty... you should go file a formal complaint with the chp. If it is guilty, you should still go file a complaint, and you should start your appeal. I think we could render much assistance on your appeal.

If these chp's really did do the old "switcharoo", I'd be PISSED!! I would not stop until somebody lost a badge!!!

[mojo41]

Yes, Jimbo, the chp in all their glory, chose one to testify, [and lie his ass off] persuaded the pro-tem, the baliff, and that foul-faced clerk to go along with it. She is the same clerk who was present on arraignment day, she knows fully well what went down.
Thank you Jimbo, I'll stay in touch.
mojo41

[Maestro64]

Depend on the location, this happens more times than not, many times in these small town areas one officer shows up in court to "present" all the tickets to the court. Many time it is the officer in charge for that location like a Sargent or Captain.

Many times, the officer just reads from the ticket and tries and avoid any direct testimony, then they let the victim bury themselves by making up some story or testifying they didn't do this thing but another thing.

There is nothing wrong with another officer reading from the ticket, where he gets himself in trouble like Jim stated is if he testifies to what actually happen since he did not have first hand knowledge.

In your case I think you got yourself into trouble by calling them out in open court. However, from your story I am not 100% sure what exactly happen in you case. It lacks some detail so I will not assume.

From the sounds of it, they have no choose to dismiss since the officer who wrote the ticket was not there. But you never know.

[JIMinCA]

Maestro makes an intersting point with the "representative" showing up to read the citation. However, what that lacks is that simply reading the citation does NOT establish a prima facie case. I don't doubt that it happens, but this is just another way people get their rights trampled in traffic court.

[CdwJava]

I, for one, have never heard of such a bizarre practice. If it happens, I have never heard of it. And, if it happens, it shouldn't.

- Carl

[JIMinCA]

Originally Posted by CdwJava

I, for one, have never heard of such a bizarre practice. If it happens, I have never heard of it. And, if it happens, it shouldn't.

- Carl

Well, apparently it happened to our OP. So, if an officer was testifying for another cop, what would you think would be an appropriate course of action? Should he loose his job? Disciplinary action? Slap on the wrist? Nothing at all??

[CdwJava]

Originally Posted by JIMinCA

Well, apparently it happened to our OP. So, if an officer was testifying for another cop, what would you think would be an appropriate course of action? Should he loose his job? Disciplinary action? Slap on the wrist? Nothing at all??

I don't know. WHY was it happening? Under what theory was it being done? Was this officer ordered by his superiors to testify in this way? Did the officer claim that HE was the one that wrote the citation when he, in fact, did not?

If he committed perjury, then the court and the agency should take appropriate action. If he was testifying on hearsay, then the testimony should be summarily dismissed.

Since this whole concept is foreign to me, and I cannot imagine WHY the agency - much less the CHP - would condone any such thing, I can't explain why it might have been permitted or why it would no have been quashed on any number of prior incidents. I'd certainly like to know what county the OP is in so I could look into this practice (or aberration, as the case may be).

- Carl

[davew128]

Originally Posted by CdwJava

I, for one, have never heard of such a bizarre practice. If it happens, I have never heard of it. And, if it happens, it shouldn't.

In CA, no. It is regular practice in Massachusetts however at magistrate's appeals, however if it starts to get into a matter of the facts of what happened beyond what is stated on the ticket, the case is usually continued and the citing officer supponaed to appear.

[mojo41]

I've not received a verdict yet, what do you think is the time limit on how long they have? Or is there one?
Carl, the "bizarre incident" took place in Nevada county. After being told to be cautious about giving too many facts, I'm not disclosing the officers name, or the town, you probably don't want it anyway. I don't blame you or anyone else for not believing it could happen.
This particular chp officer not only read off a ticket, he juiced up the charge with his description of the events on that nite. This includes rediculous fabrications of speed, roadblocks that were being put into place, and of course, my non-compliance to pull over! I sat there staring at him in complete shock! What an act.Even the pro-tem found this a little hard to swallow when he asked the officer how all this could possibly happen inside of four and a half minutes! [that was the official time it took to stop me!]
If you find anything interesting out there, do tell. I'd much appreciate.Dave, thank you, need support.
mojo41

[CdwJava]

Originally Posted by mojo41

Carl, the "bizarre incident" took place in Nevada county. After being told to be cautious about giving too many facts, I'm not disclosing the officers name, or the town, you probably don't want it anyway.

The town does not matter as the courts are organized on the county level, and the CHP is a state organization. I AM going to contact some friends there and ask if this is a common practice (by simply saying that I had heard this was being done) and see if I can find out some answers for at least myself.

If you find anything interesting out there, do tell. I'd much appreciate.

If I find out anything, I'll pass it along. Unfortunately, I don't know of anyone at the Auburn or Grass Valley CHP offices, but I may be able to ask some of the local CHP officers here if they are familiar with it ... and I know of a couple people with Nevada City and Grass Valley that I might be able to get in touch with to ask.

- Carl

[I_Got_Banned]

Originally Posted by mojo41

I had a "pro-tem" sitting in,

They're supposed to give you a waiver form to sign if the case is being adjudicated by a pro-tem. Did you sign it?

[mojo41]

To I Got Banned,
Yes, I remember the baliff pushing this paper in front of me, then making the motion to sign. I had already given permission to proceed to the pro-tem. At that time the pro-tem was busy explaining the absence od the court reporter, or recorder, do you know which is correct?mojo41

[I_Got_Banned]

Originally Posted by mojo41

To I Got Banned,
Yes, I remember the baliff pushing this paper in front of me, then making the motion to sign. I had already given permission to proceed to the pro-tem. At that time the pro-tem was busy explaining the absence od the court reporter, or recorder, do you know which is correct?mojo41

If you're asking about reporter vs. recorder I'd say it depends upon the court/depends on the case. Although my understanding is that traffic court does not have either and that as far as I know is not recent & thereby not due to any budgetary restraints.

[I_Got_Banned]

l'd like to add this tidbit in here... This is from your 48 and counting thread which, as the title suggested, you started 48 hours prior to your court appearance. I direct your attention to the last 3 lines in the following quote:

Originally Posted by I_Got_Banned

You can agree and still appeal… In fact, I wouldn’t even mention I’m appealing at all regardless of whether I think I am appealing or not. If you wanna give the judge heads up that you’re convinced that you’re “not guilty as charged” and that you’re prepared to appeal if needed, then do that before the trial starts not after it ends.

How? You may ask?
A tape recorded!
Make sure that you request the judge permission to use it though before the trial starts.

Sadly enough, by that point you were already convinced that you only had one supporter on here. I'm not sure what or who convinced you of that, but I can take a guess. One which I'll keep it to myself.

It's easy to sit here on the sidelines and cheer as loud as one can, screaming "You got an easy win".... OH... I better shut up. I think I made my point!!!

Good luck with your appeal!