Specific Questions, upcoming courtdate! Help please!

[SadbutTrue]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? California. Cited for VC 22350, 66 in a 50. Pulled over by CHP, on Kanan Rd, Los Angeles County. Malibu Courthouse.

Sorry, I lost track of my last post (after the first response didn't think it'd be useful... ends up with a page and a half! going through it now but i figured I'd ask since I'm trying to get this discovery request out today).

1. I'm making my discovery request today. I'm having a hell of a time getting the exact Los Angeles District Attorney office address for my purposes. I do have his HQ address, which I assume is it (or close):

The Hon. Steve Cooley, District Attorney
Los Angeles County
210 West Temple St.
Los Angeles, Ca 90012.

I got this from the district attorney site. Is that good enough? Is it completely wrong? Does it need to be more specific (attn: someone, etc)? Shoudl I send the request to the courthouse in question instead/too?

2. So long as the party isn't a witness or participant in the trial, they can sign my proof of service form right? Can my dad? I would think so, but he is a relative so...

3. I had my court date last week (as you know if you read my other thread). I asked for traffic school, was shot down and assigned a court date. I want to, before the in person trial, attempt a Trial By Declaration. I called the Malibu courthouse and the lady told me I gave up that right by not asking for it in my first appearance in court.

Is this true? Or do I just have to go there in person and be more persistent? Can I see the judge before my courtdate and ask that way?

More questions to come, thanks a ton! I'm actually kind of excited to fight this in court, it sounds like my case is a textbook example of the ones on helpigotaticket.com...

 

[SadbutTrue]

4. Also, I have a few items of 'evidence' i plan to use at trial...

Things like weather reports the day in question, photos of road conditions, google maps, etc.

Also I have a witness I'm considering calling, since I was following her at the time and she can attest to my speed/driving at the time.

I have been told I have to disclose this in my request for discovery. How do you do that? At the end of the discovery just make a quick list? Does it need to be more 'official' than that?

Thanks again!

 

[I_Got_Banned]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? California. Cited for VC 22350, 66 in a 50. Pulled over by CHP, on Kanan Rd, Los Angeles County. Malibu Courthouse.

Sorry, I lost track of my last post (after the first response didn't think it'd be useful... ends up with a page and a half! going through it now but i figured I'd ask since I'm trying to get this discovery request out today).

1. I'm making my discovery request today. I'm having a hell of a time getting the exact Los Angeles District Attorney office address for my purposes. I do have his HQ address, which I assume is it (or close):

The Hon. Steve Cooley, District Attorney
Los Angeles County
210 West Temple St.
Los Angeles, Ca 90012.

I got this from the district attorney site. Is that good enough? Is it completely wrong? Does it need to be more specific (attn: someone, etc)? Shoudl I send the request to the courthouse in question instead/too?

Actually, you would send it to the District Attorney's office which is located aty the courthouse where your citation is being handled. For the Malibu Court, that address is:
The Hon. Steve Cooley,
Los Angeles County District Attorney
Malibu Satellite Office23525
West Civic Center Way
Malibu, Ca. 90265

With any commuinication that you have with the DA, you also need to send the originals to the courthouse, and send the DA the copies as well as keep 2 copies for yourself.

2. So long as the party isn't a witness or participant in the trial, they can sign my proof of service form right? Can my dad? I would think so, but he is a relative so...

Your Dad can mail it. He's not a party. Not only does he need to sign it, technically he needs to stuff the documents in the envelope as well as mail them out!

3. I had my court date last week (as you know if you read my other thread). I asked for traffic school, was shot down and assigned a court date. I want to, before the in person trial, attempt a Trial By Declaration. I called the Malibu courthouse and the lady told me I gave up that right by not asking for it in my first appearance in court.

Is this true? Or do I just have to go there in person and be more persistent? Can I see the judge before my courtdate and ask that way?

Uhm... If you knew you wanted a TBD, why didn't you ask for it in court? Not sure if you've actually gave up your right to it. I can't see why it couldn't be changed but I could be wrong...

Anybody else wanna chime in on that?

Did the Judge say why he/she would not allow Traffic School? Typically its an automatic no for 25 mph or more over the limit but for 16 over the limit! That stinks...

More questions to come, thanks a ton! I'm actually kind of excited to fight this in court, it sounds like my case is a textbook example of the ones on helpigotaticket.com...

We're excited for you!

 

[Maestro64]

You do not have to disclose anything, what you are bring in is defined usually as "Work Product" which is not discoverable by the prosecution, you got a form letter and they are asking for reciprocal discovery if you have evidence in which they can not obtain themselves and you are require to share with the other side.

Also, just like you when you make a motion for discovery you have to be specific in what you are asking for so does the other side. Unless they clearly state what they want you have no obligation to share your work product with them. They are simply saying if you have evidence against you that will help our case please send it what every it may be, it is a fishing trip on their part.

 

[seniorjudge]

...

Things like weather reports the day in question, photos of road conditions, google maps, etc.

Also I have a witness I'm considering calling, since I was following her at the time and she can attest to my speed/driving at the time.

...

First one, you may be able to get some of this in under judicial notice. Google.

Second one, this must be disclosed before trial.

 

[JIMinCA]

First one, you may be able to get some of this in under judicial notice. Google.

Second one, this must be disclosed before trial.

I believe the OP said he was "told" that he would have to provide discoverable information to the prosecution. This is wrong. The prosecution would have to specifically ask for it. Is that what happened?

 

[I_Got_Banned]

You do not have to disclose anything, what you are bring in is defined usually as "Work Product" which is not discoverable by the prosecution, you got a form letter and they are asking for reciprocal discovery if you have evidence in which they can not obtain themselves and you are require to share with the other side.

Also, just like you when you make a motion for discovery you have to be specific in what you are asking for so does the other side. Unless they clearly state what they want you have no obligation to share your work product with them. They are simply saying if you have evidence against you that will help our case please send it what every it may be, it is a fishing trip on their part.

Sorry Maestro, I disagree. "Work Product" is completely different than "evidence" he plans on introducing at his trial or witnesses he plans on calling.

Here's California Penal Code Section 1054.3. The defendant and his or her attorney shall disclose to the prosecuting attorney:
(a) The names and addresses of persons, other than the defendant, he or she intends to call as witnesses at trial, together with any relevant written or recorded statements of those persons, or reports of the statements of those persons, incuding any reports or statements of experts made in connection with the case, and including the results of physical or mental examinations, scientific tests, experiments, or comparisons which the defendant intends to offer in evidence at the trial.
(b) Any real evidence which the defendant intends to offer in evidence at the trial.

 

[SadbutTrue]

Uhm... If you knew you wanted a TBD, why didn't you ask for it in court? Not sure if you've actually gave up your right to it. I can't see why it couldn't be changed but I could be wrong...

Anybody else wanna chime in on that?

Did the Judge say why he/she would not allow Traffic School? Typically its an automatic no for 25 mph or more over the limit but for 16 over the limit! That stinks...

He said I had already 'had a few cases of traffic school in the last year.' Which isn't completely true... I did one online traffic school instance about a month ago for a lane change violation, and another one abotu 2 years ago in northern california for a speeding ticket.

I walked in essentially expecting traffic school, and a Trial by Declaration wasn't really on my mind. The thing was over in about 2 minutes.

Did I officially 'waive' my right to a TbD then?

Sounds like I do need to list my witness, and her contact information. For the 'evidence' regarding the conditions, can I just list (in say bullet poitns): Photo of roads, weather reports from here and here, etc? It would be nice if I could take the photos at a later time, I'd have to get up early and take them tomorrow morning before work otherwise.

Okay, so I'm going to send the original documents to the address listed by I Got Banned, copies to the DA's HQ office (the address I already listed), and keep at least two copies for myself? Sounds reasonable. Thanks for the help, keep it coming.

 

[I_Got_Banned]

He said I had already 'had a few cases of traffic school in the last year.' Which isn't completely true... I did one online traffic school instance about a month ago for a lane change violation, and another one abotu 2 years ago in northern california for a speeding ticket.

It isn't comletely true but it isn't completely wrong either. You did Traffic School a month ago & you walked into court expecting traffic school?
You can only attent traffic school once every 18 months. You may be eligible for a 12 hour class but if you just had traffic school a month ago, I can see how the judge wouldn't offer that or why he would allow it if you asked!

Did I officially 'waive' my right to a TbD then?

I still don't see why but I'm still not sure!

Sounds like I do need to list my witness, and her contact information. For the 'evidence' regarding the conditions, can I just list (in say bullet poitns): Photo of roads, weather reports from here and here, etc? It would be nice if I could take the photos at a later time, I'd have to get up early and take them tomorrow morning before work otherwise.

Just leave your disclosure and mail it in a seperate letter on a different day. There's nothing that says it has to be included in the inmitial request. If they get 15 days to comply after your request then you're entitled to the same 15 days to provide your list.

Okay, so I'm going to send the original documents to the address listed by I Got Banned, copies to the DA's HQ office (the address I already listed), and keep at least two copies for myself? Sounds reasonable. Thanks for the help, keep it coming.

Actually, it doesn't sound reasonable. It sounds wrong!
Have someone you know mail the original discovery request along with the Proof of service to the "Traffic Division" at the Malibu Court.

Have that same someone mail one copy of your discovery request along with a copy of the Proof of service to the D A at the address I isted above.

Keep 2 copies of both, the discovery request and the proof of service for yourself.

You don't need to mail anything to the DA's HQ in downtown LA...

 

[SadbutTrue]

It isn't comletely true but it isn't completely wrong either. You did Traffic School a month ago & you walked into court expecting traffic school?
You can only attent traffic school once every 18 months. You may be eligible for a 12 hour class but if you just had traffic school a month ago, I can see how the judge wouldn't offer that or why he would allow it if you asked!

I still don't see why but I'm still not sure!

Just leave your disclosure and mail it in a seperate letter on a different day. There's nothing that says it has to be included in the inmitial request. If they get 15 days to comply after your request then you're entitled to the same 15 days to provide your list.


Actually, it doesn't sound reasonable. It sounds wrong!
Have someone you know mail the original discovery request along with the Proof of service to the "Traffic Division" at the Malibu Court.

Have that same someone mail one copy of your discovery request along with a copy of the Proof of service to the D A at the address I isted above.

Keep 2 copies of both, the discovery request and the proof of service for yourself.

You don't need to mail anything to the DA's HQ in downtown LA...

Re: the traffic school, yes... I was asking him for the 12 hour course. A specific 'second chance' course that the Malibu Courthouse offers. I had one incident of traffic school in the 18 months prior to that (and one just outside of 18 motns), and that one incident happened to be only a few weeks old. But I didn't argue and still am not, I don't think that was incredibly unfair or anything.

I have read VC 40902 (whichever the VC is that lets you do TbD) and it doesn't say I ever 'waive' or lose my right to a TbD. It does say it has to be in by the due date on the ticket.. which is difficult because my ticket actuall wasnt' even up on the internet yet... If it matters, to make the timeline clearer:

July 12 - Get ticket
Aug 29 - Original Ticket due, but ticket not online/no courtesy notice (doesn't exist according to clerk)
Sept 2 - Ticket finally appears, courtesy notices start showing up, my appearance date was extended. I sign up for traffic school then later find out I'm not eligible (but the system still,e ven now, thinks i'm doing traffic school)
Oct 6 - new appearance date, this was last week where the judge said no 12 hour traffic school. I appear at court Oct 1
Nov 6 - actual court date, set at oct 1 court date
Nov 7 - online due date for the traffic school I'm not eligible for lol

Basically, anyone know which way it is on this? I'd hate to spend the time/money to have my dad mail these things, perhaps to only generate confusion.. but if its my right to do a TbD I'd like to try...

I did mean that someone would mail it for me w/ a proof of service, but thanks for clearing up the confusion about what goes where. So the judge/officer isn't going to hassle me when I bring in pictures/weather reports/etc and didn't specifically say I was bringing them? Seems like a minor thing but one that might screw me on a technicality or something.

Only new question: Can you use witness statements in a live trial? IE, read it off in her stead or use their quotes in your closing or something? Or should I just tell my witness to come?

 

[I_Got_Banned]

Re: the traffic school, yes... I was asking him for the 12 hour course. A specific 'second chance' course that the Malibu Courthouse offers. I had one incident of traffic school in the 18 months prior to that (and one just outside of 18 motns), and that one incident happened to be only a few weeks old. But I didn't argue and still am not, I don't think that was incredibly unfair or anything.

Actually, the 12 hour class is not specific to the Malibu Court. It is available state wide if the Judge allows it. I think the Judge denied your request considering the 2 citations you had taken traffic school for in a little over 19 months. Another Judge nay have allowed it but that's the way our legal "justice' system works. Citations are u to the discretion of the officer and the you get to court and a few important factors are typically "up to the judge". So much for fairness and equality. That's between you and I of course!

I have read VC 40902 (whichever the VC is that lets you do TbD) and it doesn't say I ever 'waive' or lose my right to a TbD. It does say it has to be in by the due date on the ticket.. which is difficult because my ticket actuall wasnt' even up on the internet yet...

I did read 40902 & it says nothing about waiving your right. It could be under another section or it could be in the California Rules if court. Who know.
I can tell you that you misread it as far as the due date is concerned. You request a TBD, post bail, the Clerk will mail you the forms you need to fill out and your declaration form will be stamped with the due date. So it is not due on the date of your initial appearance.
(If you're still unclear, Google TR-200 or TR-205 or TR-210... I'm not sure which one, but one of those forms has "Instructions to defendant". It will clarify it for you).
Additionally, if you feel excited about fighting it, feel you have a pretty good case, feel you can beat it and if you still get a hard time getting a TBD, you should go the court trial route. However, and just like you mentioned in a previous post Traffic court moves quick. You gotta be quick on your feet, quick to object or rely, and you have to appear and act respectful to the court doing it. So a court trial is no easy feat. Your call!

Basically, anyone know which way it is on this? I'd hate to spend the time/money to have my dad mail these things, perhaps to only generate confusion.. but if its my right to do a TbD I'd like to try...

Call the court go in there & ask again, see what another person says!

Only new question: Can you use witness statements in a live trial? IE, read it off in her stead or use their quotes in your closing or something? Or should I just tell my witness to come?

In her stead? Uhm... No you cannot just read it off. It would have to be an sworn affidavit otherwise it would be considered "hearsay" which is a no no in court! I think you would have a better impact if she shows up but her sworn statement should be OK as well.
In all honesty, using a friend as a witness to try to refute the officer's testimony is a failing proposition in my view. If you have demonstrated that the officer is unsure about what he says or can somehow show he is incompetent as a witness, then yes, it will give you that extra boost.
So get your discovery request hopefully should provide you with a couple of ideas on how you might be able to accomplish that.

 

[I_Got_Banned]

Re: the traffic school, yes... I was asking him for the 12 hour course. A specific 'second chance' course that the Malibu Courthouse offers. I had one incident of traffic school in the 18 months prior to that (and one just outside of 18 motns), and that one incident happened to be only a few weeks old. But I didn't argue and still am not, I don't think that was incredibly unfair or anything.

Actually, the 12 hour class is not specific to the Malibu Court. It is available state wide if the Judge allows it. I think the Judge denied your request considering the 2 citations you had taken traffic school for in a little over 19 months. Another Judge nay have allowed it but that's the way our legal "justice' system works. Citations are u to the discretion of the officer and the you get to court and a few important factors are typically "up to the judge". So much for fairness and equality. That's between you and I of course!

I have read VC 40902 (whichever the VC is that lets you do TbD) and it doesn't say I ever 'waive' or lose my right to a TbD. It does say it has to be in by the due date on the ticket.. which is difficult because my ticket actuall wasnt' even up on the internet yet...

I did read 40902 & it says nothing about waiving your right. It could be under another section or it could be in the California Rules if court. Who know.
I can tell you that you misread it as far as the due date is concerned. You request a TBD, post bail, the Clerk will mail you the forms you need to fill out and your declaration form will be stamped with the due date. So it is not due on the date of your initial appearance.
(If you're still unclear, Google TR-200 or TR-205 or TR-210... I'm not sure which one, but one of those forms has "Instructions to defendant". It will clarify it for you).
Additionally, if you feel excited about fighting it, feel you have a pretty good case, feel you can beat it and if you still get a hard time getting a TBD, you should go the court trial route. However, and just like you mentioned in a previous post Traffic court moves quick. You gotta be quick on your feet, quick to object or rely, and you have to appear and act respectful to the court doing it. So a court trial is no easy feat. Your call!

Basically, anyone know which way it is on this? I'd hate to spend the time/money to have my dad mail these things, perhaps to only generate confusion.. but if its my right to do a TbD I'd like to try...

Call the court go in there & ask again, see what another person says!

Only new question: Can you use witness statements in a live trial? IE, read it off in her stead or use their quotes in your closing or something? Or should I just tell my witness to come?

In her stead? Uhm... No you cannot just read it off. It would have to be an sworn affidavit otherwise it would be considered "hearsay" which is a no no in court! I think you would have a better impact if she shows up but her sworn statement should be OK as well.
In all honesty, using a friend as a witness to try to refute the officer's testimony is a failing proposition in my view. If you have demonstrated that the officer is unsure about what he says or can somehow show he is incompetent as a witness, then yes, it will give you that extra boost.
So get your discovery request hopefully should provide you with a couple of ideas on how you might be able to accomplish that.

 

[SadbutTrue]

Actually, the 12 hour class is not specific to the Malibu Court. It is available state wide if the Judge allows it. I think the Judge denied your request considering the 2 citations you had taken traffic school for in a little over 19 months. Another Judge nay have allowed it but that's the way our legal "justice' system works. Citations are u to the discretion of the officer and the you get to court and a few important factors are typically "up to the judge". So much for fairness and equality. That's between you and I of course!

I did read 40902 & it says nothing about waiving your right. It could be under another section or it could be in the California Rules if court. Who know.
I can tell you that you misread it as far as the due date is concerned. You request a TBD, post bail, the Clerk will mail you the forms you need to fill out and your declaration form will be stamped with the due date. So it is not due on the date of your initial appearance.
(If you're still unclear, Google TR-200 or TR-205 or TR-210... I'm not sure which one, but one of those forms has "Instructions to defendant". It will clarify it for you).
Additionally, if you feel excited about fighting it, feel you have a pretty good case, feel you can beat it and if you still get a hard time getting a TBD, you should go the court trial route. However, and just like you mentioned in a previous post Traffic court moves quick. You gotta be quick on your feet, quick to object or rely, and you have to appear and act respectful to the court doing it. So a court trial is no easy feat. Your call!

Call the court go in there & ask again, see what another person says!

In her stead? Uhm... No you cannot just read it off. It would have to be an sworn affidavit otherwise it would be considered "hearsay" which is a no no in court! I think you would have a better impact if she shows up but her sworn statement should be OK as well.
In all honesty, using a friend as a witness to try to refute the officer's testimony is a failing proposition in my view. If you have demonstrated that the officer is unsure about what he says or can somehow show he is incompetent as a witness, then yes, it will give you that extra boost.
So get your discovery request hopefully should provide you with a couple of ideas on how you might be able to accomplish that.

Either way I'll get the discovery request out. I might try calling the court and just telling them I'm doing a Trial by Declaration rather than asking, see what they say then...

Re: the friend, the reason she would be helpful is because I was directly following her car and a) if i was going unreasonably fast she would be the first to be threatened and b) she had a better view than the officer did. But yes, I agree with your point.. the judge is going to take the officer's word over a coworker/friends/most other witnesses 99% of the time.

I'll have to dig up some basic objection and procedure stuff and practice some before the court date.. we shall see.

 

[SadbutTrue]

Last post before I send out the discovery request. Basically looking for confirmation I have the right idea with each of these:

1. I'm sending the originals to the Malibu Courthouse, Attn: Traffic Division. I'm sending copies to the Malibu Satellite office of the DA (I Got Banned's address above). Correct?

2. Should the proof of service for each reflect the minor differences in address? Both are going to the malibu courthouse, one to the DA's office and one to the Traffic Division... should the Proof of Service for each reflect that or should it be an nexact copy?

3. I believe I read somewhere I should include a copy of the ticket.. probably unnecessary but I'll throw it in. Am I sending anything else besides the proof of service, cover letter, and discovery request?

4. I'm going to the post office and sending this 'certified mail' with a delivery receipt, right? Not too experienced with non-standard mailing so let me know exactly what I have to ask them for.

Thanks again

 

[I_Got_Banned]

:1. I'm sending the originals to the Malibu Courthouse, Attn: Traffic Division.

Right.

I'm sending copies to the Malibu Satellite office of the DA (I Got Banned's address above). Correct?

Well, that's not my address really. If you mean the address I posted you are right on.

2. Should the proof of service for each reflect the minor differences in address?

There shouldn't be any differences at all between the two "proofs of service". You wanna show the court that you properly sent the request to the D A's office at the correct address so even the "Proof of Service" form that you're gonna send to the court should also show that a set if those documents was mailed to the DA's office.

So both proofs of service should show:
• The case name and number (citation #).
• The name of the person doing the mailing,
• His/her home or work address,
• The method the forms were sent (either deosited in a mailbox/at the post office OR by sending them out with today's mail (if it was a business (example: attorney's office))
• That person's signature,
• The date of mailing.
And lastly, it should show the address of the party that "you served the forms on" ("served", hence its called "Proof of Service"

3. I believe I read somewhere I should include a copy of the ticket.. probably unnecessary but I'll throw it in. Am I sending anything else besides the proof of service, cover letter, and discovery request?

Yeah, you just said you're gonna enclose a copy of the ticket. . . LOL

4. I'm going to the post office and sending this 'certified mail' with a delivery receipt, right? Not too experienced with non-standard mailing so let me know exactly what I have to ask them for.

Absolutely! That way you have a person's name and signature to show the court if your request was ignored! It'll cost you $5 & change but its worth every penny!

And quit saying you're gonna mail them. Someone else is supposed to mail them for you!!! A minor slip of the tongue like that in court & it might cuse you some problems!

Good luck!

Thanks again

You're welcome!